Many members have taken the inititaive to start events for fellow members, such as the annual meets and the state Chapters. At one point, the club even mentioned those events in the magazine, but due to some problems, which I will not go into detail here, have changed that to our disadvantage. We now can only resort to the "Forum" (former BB) to get the word out to members in reference to upcoming events. But it is those events which get the members together and benefit the club by us getting the name of the NAFC out to the public. It may be hard to believe, but there are many fishermen/women, as well as stores such as Academy and Bass Pro Shops, who DO NOT know what the NAFC actually is. It is us members who raise the awareness and recruit new members to the club.

Wouldn't it be just fair to us, and ouur efforts, to have the club support us by mentioning events in the magazine again? Perhaps even have editors join us at the meets or chapter events and see for themselves that we are good people with a passion for fishing and reaching out to the communities?

This is just food for thought, and I for one, do not count on the club to change their ways and views on our cause.

Kaiman!~

I agree witrh your comments 100%, but you are "beating a dead horse" here, believe me!

Doc, I know what you're saying, but this is a new year and just maybe they do decide to get involved in what we are doing. Am I counting on it? NO!! But we will never know for sure if we won't try.

Here's an idea: Why don't we send pictures and short reports to the club's editors every time we had an event, such as the annual meets and the chapter meetings? If they see and read the how civilized they are, and what we are actually doing at those events, they may just change their minds. Well, just food for thought.

Kaiman:

Here's something for ya!  Last year I had the local TV station at our meet and they provided me with a small video that was on the local news channel.  I sent this, along with an article in the Local "Gwinn Quarterly" to Kurt at the club, along with photo's of the wedding of Pappy-D and his wife Deb.  To date I have not read or heard ANYTHING from the club regarding the material I forwarded to them, although it was pretty heavely indicated that they would use the information to print an article in 07.  Well that was in June of 07 and it is now Jan 08, and nothing!!!!!!!!  If this is any indication., I for one am not holding my breath any!  And they wonder why members are not happy!!!!!!!

But I wish you a lot of luck in your endeavors regarding this.

All this makes one wonder what the administration is thinking what sort of people the club's members are?

I herewith invite any members of the administration to our annual Texas meet this year to see for themselves that we are civilized and just a bunch of fishing enthusiasts.

WHY ARE YOU SKYCOP NOW? (whatever) KAIMAN always cared about all us fighting, and debateing in this club, and he allways is there when one of us needs a sole like him who gets this thing that seems out of hand, i for one will allways wach for kaimans input in this club... jim

I appreciate y'alls kind words. Thank you!

If we band together in some of the issues, like this one, we perhaps get some response from the club and things may change. It's just a matter of numbers, the more members get involved the sooner the administration will react, and us being vigilant. If we slack in our efforts we will not be taken seriously.

I guess I am getting tired of the club ignoring us members and them getting the kudos off of our efforts and work. WE are the ones who take the initiative to get things rolling and all we would like is just a bit more support from the club. Little things, such as a short note in the magazine, goes a long way to get more people and organizations involved.

Again, thank you for your moral support and kind words.

If I'm not mistaken, this threat is called "Ask the Editors". Okay, I've asked a question, but no answer from any Editor. What gives?? If those people don't take their time to answer these questions, why have this threat at all?? It seems that they gave us some pacefiers and leave us hanging.

I don't like to complain or cause problems, but I seriously am getting tired of being ignored. I enjoy the BB and its members, but it wouldn't hurt if the club is getting involved a bit more.

Again, I invite any Editor to join us at the annual Texas meet, as well as to any of our South-Texas Chapter meetings. Unfortunately, though, no one will ever take me up on those invitations, from the club that is.

Kaiman:

I in no way am in disagreement with any of your efforts.,  in fact I support them 100% as I stated earlier.  I have also stated that I have forwarded numerous articles and photo's and local news coverage items of the Gwinn Meets in the past to the club with negative results.  I also have called the Club and have spoken to one of the "editors" and still no answer or results.  I have also invited members of the NAFC Staff to attend meets, again no response.  I will continue to write to them with regards to publishing articles about the various member meets.

With regards to my "new handle" as Pillman stated the "new site" would not let me log in under my old one thus I chose "Skycop".  The name is in reference to the "job" I had in the Air Force., Air Police., Security Police whatever you want to call it now a days as we were called "Skycops" by members of other AF organizations.  Thus "Skycop".  Hope that answers your question.

Keep plugging Kaiman as I will also be doing so.

Thanks for letting me bend your ear!!!!

It is a poor statement for the club administration that they ignore us in so many ways. We take our time, efforts, and money to put the meets and chapters together, in the name of the NAFC. We even started looking for sponsors for our chapter events, away from the club since I don't expect any support from them anyway. But I bet that as soon as some of our ideas take off and get more and more positive attention by the media, the club will try to get in on the kudos.

I keep haunting the club, the administration, and the editors until something is resolved. We need more support from the ones who took our membership money.

Walleye77:

I hope my response to you answered your quesion as to why I change my name.  As I stated I am not against what Kaiman is posting as I have done a lot of wrting to the club on this issue with no response from the editors, let alone the so called administrator of this site.  In one of my letters I informed the editor aboout the members not extremely pleased with the "new * improved" site, along with the loss of the chat room and other option we had on the old site and still no response.  Do not know what else you are looking for from me as an individudal here.  I fully support what Kaiman is attempting and I support his efforts 100%.

Just a thought Kaiman, why don`t you run this by all the other chapters?  Post it in each state section. I`m sure they would all support what you are saying and there is a power in numbers. Maybe enough to turn a few heads if we are all standing together.

Walleye 77:

I appreciate your post and I hope you understand the reason I HAD to change my name "handle".  Some of the members were lucky enough to be able to retain their "original" name. For some reason this "system" would not accept mine when I had to re-register???  I hope I did not up-set you by my answer. I will continue to back Kaiman in his efforts.  Thanks for listening.

Hey Walleyeguy & Kaiman!

Thanks for the responses and your comments, especially yours walleyeguy!  I really appreciate them. 

Kaiman:  I know what you mean about members deciding to leave the Club because of the run around they are receiving here lately.  For example, walleyemen from Canda.  He is getting a run around about logging in as a guest and has beem a member for 3 years!  He called Customer Service to ask about the problem and life membership and still has not received a response from the club.  I wrote Kurt, editor of the magazine yesterday on walleyemen's behalf and explained the situation to him and he (Kurt) stated that he has "passed it on to  the IT Staff" and for them to perform some "damage control" with walleyemen.  We shall see what develops.

I just wish that the "administrators" of this site would just sit down at a table and review some of these comments and really listen to the members.  Or like they used to do, drop into the chat room and talk to some of the members that are in there. That's how some of the older members got the Member M<eet section going, if you remember.  It sure would not hurt them any to spend a few minutes actually "talking" to us in the room for example.(Which by the way you can still access through the NAFC temp BB, it case you did not know).

Well I guess I have been on the soap box long enough here.

4554 posts under the old club site!

I too remember when the Editors frequented the BB and the chat. Those "good" times seem to be over, for now at least. They used to care and took our input and criticism and tried to work on the problems that were taking place at the time. Have you seen the spma adds on here?? They wouldn't have been there for as long as they are now on the old BB.

Change is good, if it is done right. I am not complaining about the "new Forum" or the new website. Granted, it's not perfect, but I guess they are still working on getting the kinks out of the syatem and get to work right. But they, the Editors and/or Administration, should frequent the forum a bit mmore and in depth. After all, this threat is called "Ask the Editors". I am still waiting to get a response from them. the next step will be for me to send them an e-mail. Just as I did with the member store, which still needs a lot of improvement.

I need more support from the fellow members on this issue. I know that there are many meets and chapters nationwide now. I'd like to see the chairpeople of those chapters/meets to join in and get the recognition in the magazine our efforts deserve.

I still don't see any response from the editors. Perhaps that's why the new forum doesn't have the feature where we can see who's online anymore. The administration may think that this will go away if they ignore it, but I will be persistant until I get a definite answer.

I, once again, would likme to thank the members who have supported me in this quest. Perhaps more will join in and make their voices heard. After all, tis is something that effects all of us, at one point or another.

hang in there Kaiman, I too would like to see that brought back along with the chat room. I have also asked them but like you have gotten no response. Lou

Well Pete you summed it up in one word!  The OH Chapter isn't standing still we are moving forward and onward we are having our monthly planning meetings and are busy planning our May meet!  I clap my hands for the NAFC for one thing.....getting us OH members together other than that who knows.  I am still considered a club member (pending email notification)???? I have been a member since 1989 and a lifer since 2005 and yet the admin of theis site which sent me an email the other day to say we don't see a problem????

I did get a letter in the mail on Dec 3rd saying I won the Great Gear Giveaway in OCT/NOV but that is all I got so far of course the said the prize would arrive approximately in 6 weeks...I guess that is the out.  I also bought 2 hats and 3 shirts from the club also on Dec 21st and have yet to recieve those.  I am doing my best to support the club but I am expending more energy than they are in     tyring to keep us members happy!

I guess I climbed up on my on soap box sorry people.  Keep your chins up like Pete said it is us members that we are here for!

The bottom line is we the members are the club!!They just own the name and rights, to them this is a business but to us it is a familly, Alot of us are angry with what has happened but in reality nothings going to be done about it, i find it upsets alot of us on here(myself included) but we got to stick together and not argue and bicker with our selves, it just fuels the fire, Let's all get back to what we know best and that's fishing!!Have a problem doing something on the site ask davesette, he'll help ya, i'm sure!!Botom line here is we got to make things work , if not we give up everything! we have to make a stand to make things better because nobody else will!!The member meets are a good example, they have absolutly nothing to do with the corperate club, they could care less! We as members make them what they are, Do you really think they could come up with something as good as these meets.., never! To actually meet in person the people you speak with each day and fish with them is priceless!! A good example of this is 2 years ago in gwinn, I show up from canada, not knowing anybody , i pull in the driveway at Geno's and it's like a reunion,  i sat down at a table started talking with 2 gentlemen Tom (canepole) and Warren (saskquatch), we all wanted to find some pike to catch, looked at the map found a possible spot, and made plans for the next morning, we hit this river and fished the crap out of it, there wasn't a square inch we didn't fish, lures flying everywhere's, 3 complete strangers in one boat fishing our brains out and not one tangle up at all, It was like we had fished together all our lives and new want the guy beside was going to do, needless to say we were gone along time and missed supper(we took some flac for that LOL), The bottom line is i made 2 very good freinds in which i speak to away from the club on a regular basis.I've meet many fine people inthis club and the corperate end had nothing to do with it, you the members did, and with out you guyz i would have never had the chance to meet such fine people. I have many freinds here for life and no matter what the club can't take that away from me!!!!!Remember who we are folks..... are a familly and a familly sticks together and always work thing out no matter how tough thing's get.

HEY WALLEYEMEN--- YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. WELL SAID. WE HAVE GOT TO STICK TOGETHER AND IF WE DON'T THE CORPORATE WINS AND WE HAVE NOTHING BUT MEMORIES! IF YOUSTOP AND THINK ABOUT IT A LOT OF US WERE READY TO THROW IN THE POLE AND TO SAY "HECK WITH IT". I'M GLAD I GHANGED MY MIND AND SO DID YOU AND TURNIP. SO LETS GET ER DONE AND GET THIS GROUP BACK WHERE IT WAS!!

FISH ON!!!

BILL JOHNSON aka FISHNHUNT

Kaiman Wrote:

Many members have taken the inititaive to start events for fellow members, such as the annual meets and the state Chapters. At one point, the club even mentioned those events in the magazine, but due to some problems, which I will not go into detail here, have changed that to our disadvantage. We now can only resort to the "Forum" (former BB) to get the word out to members in reference to upcoming events. But it is those events which get the members together and benefit the club by us getting the name of the NAFC out to the public. It may be hard to believe, but there are many fishermen/women, as well as stores such as Academy and Bass Pro Shops, who DO NOT know what the NAFC actually is. It is us members who raise the awareness and recruit new members to the club.

Wouldn't it be just fair to us, and ouur efforts, to have the club support us by mentioning events in the magazine again? Perhaps even have editors join us at the meets or chapter events and see for themselves that we are good people with a passion for fishing and reaching out to the communities?

Hey Kaiman, I don't know if you are aware of this, but according to the NAFC magazine, the club has an " Director of Events and Sponsorship". Her name is Kristine Houtman.   Maybe She would be the one to get in touch with about whether or not the club wants to get involved in Member meets or EVENTS. I'm not sure what events the Director is responsible for, but one would think Member meets would certainly be one of them.  Sponsorship (also in her title by the way ) definetly would assist in making any EVENT more successful both for the Club AND it's Members!  Imagine an event were someone from the club attended and brought along an "expert or local Pro fisherman, brought Sponsors and vendors, etc. Had prizes and giveaways. Took pictures, talked to members about fishing strategies.  Wouldn't that be the true definition of a FISHING CLUB?  Once again a Win-Win situation for club and member alike,  A Marketing guys Dream!!  If you want to try contact her and you think it would be helpful if others ( like myself Or some of the members you know who I'm sure are much smarter the Me) would also contact her,  let me know.  I'm game.  It sounds like some of our members have planned successful Meets in the past but wished for some help from the club to enhance the experience.  I myself would love to attend a meet in my area, ( N.J. ) so anyone's success with discussing this with the club can help us all. Who knows, maybe if someone on the corporate side would see how passionate it's members are about getting together in a Cluib envorinment Making new friends, FISHING.  The key words are FRIENDS FISHING!!  Maybe they will Bite!  If not, nothing is lost, members still will get together at Meets, on the BB, On the Lake or wherever!  Peace to all of You. I'm looking forward to the possibility of meeting up with, fishin and bullcrappin with this clubs members someday.

Stealthfisher

Kristine Houtman. is in charge of over seeing the Masters Walleye Tournaments and has nothing to do with club member events at least that was what I was told the last time I inquired about member events.

Thanks Rod Tender. I kinda figured one of you guys may have already explored that avenue. I just thought I would throw it out there.  You never know.

Back in  1978 when  the first Club/ Magazine (NAHC) was started and again in 1988 when  the second Club/Magazine (NAFC) was  introduced they did have  get-togethers for members known as "Jamborees". the last one for the NAFC was in 1998 in Navada for it's tenth Anniversary I have not heard of one being held since 1998  for any of the Clubs.

Those of us that could not attend the 1998 Jamboree for one reason or another felt left out back then, same as member do now. Days after the 1998 Jamboree those of us that were online were feeling sorry for ourselves and mad at the Club for not having Jamborees closer to  the Centeral and Eastern US states for the members who lived there.  The topic of  starting our own get togethers across the country was brought up way back then in 1998 (contrary to the believes of some members ) the first meet of this kind was the NE Meet held in 1999.  again those of us that were unable to make that meet felt left out, so we hashed it over again on the BB and new members from different area of the country joined in, plans were made to start other meets,  like the UP Michigan meet  2002, the La Crosse Wisconsin meet 2004, the Texas meet 2004 , the PA meet, the Ohio meet , plus all the other meets that are poping up as more member hear about them.

  The question comes up all the time  why did the Club  stopped having the Jamboree and why  are they hesitant about getting involve with the members meets that we the members host.  I think we need to look at the big picture there are ruffly 465,000 member in the NAFC alone with  about 15,000+- active members here on the NAFC BB    between the various Clubs there are over 5,000,000 members of which 1,000,000 are Life members. When I asked management to join us at the La Crosse meet in 2004 the answer I got was:: "the membership is just to big to single out any one group or person." posibably the same reason why they won't answer anyone group or person here on the BB they don't want to offend the rest of us

Like Kaiman  stated, those of us who have been involved in and  host meets every years  have pleaded with the Club for years  to please acknowledge our efforts and post the info about our respective  meets in the Magazine so the other 450,000 member of the NAFC have the opportunity  to read it,  get involved and join us if they want to and / or start one of their own so we can join them.

Bottom line is, we have not asked, nor are we asking  the Club to help or fund the meets !! We are only asking  for the Editors to place  a few lines in the members to members section of the Magazine each month

sample:

2008 La Crosse Members get together July 16th to 20th    for info visit them on the web or contact them at e-mail xxx@xxxxxx  XXX_XXX_XXXX

To the Editors and staff of the NAFC is this to much to ask of you???

Jerry, I couldn't agree more with what you've said. All we want is that the club recognizes our work with a short/brief statement in the magazine. How else are we supposed to reach all the members in our state/region? We don't even have a member directory on here anymore, unless I haven't found it yet. But even that doesn't help to get people to attend any meet or chapter meetings.

And I've stated this once before, but I have not noticed any response from the editors on this matter on here. Are they too good to respond to this issue?

Thanks Again RodTender  for the in depth explaination.  I had just received the NAFC Magazine, saw Kristine Houtman's name and title and remebered reading Kaiman's post on the subject of meets. I wrote the post as soon as I got home from work that morning. Being one of the newer members,  I was just trying to help, if I could, by offering input. Forgive my ignorance of the actual situation at hand, but once again, I'm a "newbie" just trying to help.  You guys obviously have had, and are still having  a lot of dialouge with the club on this matter and have a much better grasp about this topic than me. I'm feel confident by reading your posts that this matter is in very capable hands and that if anything can be done, you folks will accomplish it. 

RodT Said:

Bottom line is, we have not asked, nor are we asking  the Club to help or fund the meets !! We are only asking  for the Editors to place  a few lines in the members to members section of the Magazine each month

Sorry for mentioning Club Help or Funds.   I feel as though  I may have hit a nerve by mentioning it . It was never my intention.  I'll just yield to those more versed in this matter.

stealthfisher

I should be the one apologizing  to you...    My post was intended to bring newer members up to speed and to answer some of the questions that new members like yourself  have with regards to the club and member meets.. I should not have addressed it to just you   Sorry  about that,  I removed your name

 I agree with everything you said: and your right the more members we can get involved in the meets the more the club will benifit ( with new memberships product sales etc) last year we had at least 10 campers driving to there campsites stop and ask what was going on and what the club was about....not to mention the fact that several were fellow members who were mad that club didn't let them know there was a meet ...

Our only hope is that the Club will recognize our efforts

Thanks for all your help and ideas    again please accept my apology 

There is no need for any apologies. I didn't think you were directing anything at me personally.  I appreciate the efforts of guys like you and Kai,Turnip, Skycop, Pillman.AND of course  ladies of the club like, MuskyGirl. I enjoy reading posts from people like yourselves and DaveS, FearnoFish, Basser, Big Bad John,  Bay and ICB.     This is starting to sound like an award acceptance speech. I don't want to leave anyone out, so lets just say I enjoy reading posts from All of our club members and the thoughts and info you folks take the time to print here.  I can learn a lot and that will make me a better fisherman and I maybe  I can add something along the way.

I hope to meet and get to wet a hook with some of you in person someday.  I am going to try my darndest to attend some member meets in the area in 2008.

I'd like to get the editors to respond to this whole issue. As I've mentioned before, this threat is called "Ask the Editors", yet I have not seen their response or take on this issue on here. What gives?

Respect towards us members seems to be laking. So, what do we need the magazine and the club for if our efforts are not being respected?

Quote-What do we need the club for?

Guyz with out the club you would not have all the friends and much useful info on this site. We the members made this site what it is, not  the club, sure they own the site, they put up the topics, but we the member gave all the info, can you find one post where they contributed any advice or info? No!The bottom line is we have to make things what they are, if ya want some kind of recongnition for what what your doing, grab the bull by the b@#lls and do it yourself as a club area chapter. The only one who can make things happen is ourselfs, Show them your better than them, ive had the great prevalige in being part of several great things though this club and it's member meets and we never got any recongnition for anything, but you know what we know what we did was good and we felt great about doing it, we don't need a article to tell us we are a great club, the smiles and hand shakes were enough, I,m not tooting any horns here but for example 2 years ago we planned for the gwinn meet that we would like to do some thing for the big brothers and sisters organization, thru several months of planning and reall hard work the members were able to get numerous donations of rods, tackle, and tackle boxs, which in turn were given to each and every child that attended, the smiles were priceless, we then in turn split all the kids up between all the boaters and took them fishing and tried to teach them alittle about conservation, followed by a nice bbq after the fishing was done, this was something that made me so proud to be part of and never could have happened without the devotion of the meet and club member and all the tackle company's that donated gifts, My memory  of this will be with me for ever , as i got to take 2 children out fishing who had never been in a boat before and got to see the amazement and excitement on ther faces as they caught there first fish ever, the one little girl i had in my boat wasn't having much luck fishing and looked kinda down, so when it was time to head back to shore we fired up the boat and i turned to her and said come on Harely you have to drive the boat home, her eye's got as big as saucers and the smile was priceless, a great end to maybe a not so great afternoon for her. Bottom line is the club did not make this happen for the kids we as members did, that's the bottom line guyz!!

I have to agree with Turnip, this is not about the individual, it is for the events that are taking place and a way to reach those members who do not frequent the Forum.

I have been organizing the annual Texas meet for 4 years now, with, unfortunately, stagnant member attendance. Why? Because there is no other way, besides the forum, to reach members. More recent, I have become the Chaiman of the South-Texas Chapter, and one of our prime concerns is to get more members involved. But how, other then through the magazine and forum??

In that aspect, we, as the membership of the Chapter, are going out of our way to get the word out and are in the process of placing flyers at outdoor stores, such as Bass Pro Shops and Academy, in order to make members aware of us. Yet, it would help all of us if the club would give us some recognition and place something in the magazine. After all, it would benefit everybody involved. We are getting new members for the club, and our attendance numbers will rise.

As the chapter, we are in the planning stages to get injured service men and women out of area hospitals to take them fishing. Also, we are planning to get the big brothers and big sisters of America involved for other events as well.

With all that being said, where does it say that it is for individual gain? My question, in regards to what do we need the club for, is that they don't want to get involved or recognize our doings!! Think about that!

Hey Kaiman, I can think of no better thread on this board than this one. Make us a petition, post it here. I think many would sign it. Lets see if the members will come together and be heard in one voice. Even if you have to e-mail it, it`s not you by yourself, it would be the members. Just an idea.

Seems ridiculous, but it sounds like the club should have a separate news letter for members only up dating the folks about stuff like member meets. It could be quarterly or bi-annual. They could give the organizers a deadline to get all of their information in so it could be put into the news letter before the event. Seems silly to me to try and promote a club that doesn't even want to lift a finger to help though. My hat is off to the fine folks that go out of their way to make these events happen. Hopefully the club will get their heads out of where the sun doesn't shine and appreciate your efforts as well. Better yet let me explain it to them. THESE PEOPLE ARE MARKETING THE CLUB FOR YOU FOR FREE... THAT EQUALS MORE MORE IN YOUR GREEDY LITTLE POCKETS.  Anyway thats my two shiny pennies worth. Good luck with all of this years up coming meets.

Angry Bob NAFC Life Member Registered Smallie Fanatic

Wow I'm glad I read this board befor I paid my dues not a club I want to belong to. Best of luck fellows I will keep looking for a club to join.

Fire

read all the post and you'll find this club is very good to belong to!,the arguement here is just about getting some member meet info posted in the magazine so members who are not on line can be notified of such events, such as dates, areas, locations ect.It's not a fair assumption to judge a club from a post you don't maybe have all the info on, the mag is great and the members even better and the site has countless means of useful information, have a closer look around before making such a hasty decision, ask some questions, you will definataley get some answers. Members here are very passionate about the club, if they were not they wouldn't express it. Don't be to hasty!

Hi All:

I truely applaud all of the folks and their efforts in this "situation".  I only wish there could be ONE POINT OF CONTACT within the club "powers that be" that we as a group could E-Mail with our thoughts on this.  If there was MAYBE, JUST  MAYBE that would draw some attention to this topic.  I know I have written to Kurt on numerous occassions suggesting that he take a look at this thread to get an idea of how the members feel about this topic, and it appears that he has not done so.  I have also asked him to join some of the memebrs in the Chat Room "after hours" to get a "real hands on feedback".  Again this appears to have been to no avail.  I really do not know where to go from here and like Kaiman am open to suggestions. Bottom line is just keep pluggin along for now and see what happens to this thread and if any results come from your efforts.  To Turnip:  I do not think Doug was really looking for individual recognition here just sighting what has been done as an example of what the Club is really missing out on by now placing something about ALL OF THE MEETS being held across the country by the MEMBERS themsleves without any help or recognition from the club.   I am not off of my soap box for today.  TTYAL.

I hope you reconsider, because this club is a great place, with even better members on the Forum. This whole issue just involves a minute, yet for some of us important, issue. It all boils down to getting some help to get the word out to people who do not frequent the Forum and make them aware of the chapters and annual meets.

I like the idea of a petition, yet how do we get started, since there is no more member directory, like they had at the old BB?? We discussed this issue at our last chapter meeting and our conclusion was to send e-mails to the administration and the editors. The way we thought we may doe it is that we compose one e-mail, share itr with everybody, and CC everybody we know, so that the club sees that we are serious about this whole thing.  

Kaiman, I don`t think most members on this board have seen this thread. I have seen several other members bring this up in the past and they are not posting here. If you make a petition here, I will make sure everyone that can read is aware of it. Snail mail will take to long. I think a lot of members will respond and sign on for this. I think the temp board still has the member directory, once we are done here we can go there. Write it and they will come.

Kaiman, I hope you don`t mind this in your thread.

I put the first G on this board here. A thread that is trying to bring the members together, for the good of the members. I hope it happens. With all this family has gone through in the last several months we could use some unity here. This thread would be a GREAT spot to see that happen. I hope you all support what is trying to be done here. There are more than ninteen of us. show your support.

Kaiman,  As I stated before previously I support your comments and have the same concerns as alot of members.  The club is us their members.  I don't think emails and electronic petitions are a good way to get anyones attention (at least on the management end) on this site.  It will only show you what you already know.  That we as members support each other!  I do believe that we are like a family as though I never meet the most of the people here outside the 54 that attended the OHIO Meet last year I can see that like a family we like to joke with each other, we pick on each other (sometimes jokes don't work like we think), and we show love for each other and caring like when Musky Girl and others were dealing with health issues or like when CF Hall suddenly passed away.  We felt the loss.  WE THE MEMBERS felt that loss not management!

I suggest that all members look in the magazine in the front where it shows the editors etc.  Pick out the "person in Charge" because correct me if I'm wrong I think the IT department that runs this web site is different than the people that run the magazine?  Then you get that persons name and write a letter to that person.  Yes, and old fashioned pen in hand paper on table letter.  Than you take it to the post office and have it return receipt requested marked personal and confidential and you send it off!  At least you will know that someone at least had it in their hands before they threw it in the wast basket!  Emails are easily deleted with out even opening not to say they will open our letters but it may get thier attention.

Here is another thought...think about this a moment.  What if the powers to be don't monitior the site....Can you picture the people in charge asking a guy so how is the "new and improved" web site working and the group that is supposed to be taking care of it saying, "Great all the members love it" and they (the powers to be) never ask the site group for proof that WE THE MEMBERS love it!  I see it all the time where people tell their bosses what they want to hear!

Sorry, I got on the soap box.....I am going to hand write my letter right now and take it out and send it off.  I will post any reply if any I get.

I love the members of the club and Ice Cube Bob made me realize that if I give up on the club the state chapters may survive but what brought us together wouldn't and I am not ready to give up on this club!  I have another 40 years in me....(I hope).  Thanks ICB for opening my eyes. I support you and Kaiman!

well i agree the club should listen and help, but if the club is like Am~way, they are just banking on us to spread the word about how great the club is...just loook~ Fire wanted to leave and was resold the member ship by one of the unsatisfied members? Fire ~imho dont join the club for all the club tries to sell you, join it to share, learn, laugh with us and be a guest(buy infisherman mag!)...all the promises of the club are followed by zipper pulls and patches, go head and klik one link that the club has posted and see if it aint a scam... they don't even sell hats? but the members do??? why?

i think if you meet up don't advertise the club, make your own chapter name but never advertise the club "NAFC" ! if you/we don't sell the club, then they will soon need to find a better way to make money... 

the club should throw one huge meet everyear with everything free, just like a Union does...collect millions let it ride on intrest and then throw a camp out with hot dogs and hamburger, soda and beer & fix'ns for free once a year, it's the little reach around that make it feel like your not being fA#K  all the time...

BUT i agree the club should do more, if they want us selling there club! 

Here is a letter that I just finished writting and am going to take to the Post office for mailing!

February 14, 2008

Steve Pennaz                                                                                                                   

North American Fishing Club                                              12301Whitewater Dr.                                                                                                    Minnetonka, MN 55343-2103                                                                                      

Dear Mr. Pennaz,

I am taking time and effort to write to you today via “snail mail” in the hopes that you will actually read what a member has to say.  I for one like the new format on the web site.  I do not like that some of the links were removed and so it is harder for some to navigate the site.  What concerns me the most is that

there seems to be no monitoring of the web site.  There is a thread there that reads “ask the editors”  that has several topics that have never once been answered?  It seems to me that if there was a link on the site and in the Magazine you commented yourself that things would be better and you even put someone in charge and called him the “Web Master”, but, I do not see the presence there?

I love the club and the fact that it has brought a lot of people together who would not have crossed paths without the club.  We have formed state chapters and have “Member Meets” but what we the members are asking is some support from the club not in moneys but in print maybe a section in the magazine just for member meets.  There are members (I know this is hard to believe) that do not have access to the internet.  The only info they get form the club is through the magazine.  Last year we here in OHIO held a member meet and the club gave us two memberships to use for our Raffle.  This raffle raised  money in where we turned around and donated it to a member in Wisconsin who was battling cancer and ran out of insurance.   We wrote and article about our meet sent pictures with it and it has never appeared anywhere?  We asked for visits from club officials at our meets and never got a reply?

There are a lot of disgruntled members on the web site and I think that some attention needs to be made to them. 

We have formed our own Chapter in Ohio and we are preparing  Articles of Incorporation and By-laws so that we can get one step closer to 501(c)(3) recognition by the IRS.  We are trying to spread the word about the NAFC and what it stands for.  We are committed to educating none fishermen/women to the enjoyment and need for the sport.  Won’t you help us in this education process?

I am pleading with you on behalf of the member’s nation wide and to our friends in Canada please step up to the plate and help the club.

repost(not sure where the other one went?)

why bug the editors? they have no control over the club, they have said that already, and i don't blame them none they need a paycheck too!

It seems as I have opened a can worms, in a good way. The number of responses makes be believe that there are many members who feel and think the same way as I do, which I am grateful for. Thank you all for your input and support.

I recall, some time back, that there was an issue, which included law enforcement, at one of the meets. This resulted in the club distancing itself from supporting any events. But time heals many wounds, and I believe that everybody learns from mistakes others, as well as individuals, have made. I believe in the motto: Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

It is time to give other events the benefit of the clubs support, in any way possible. We, as a community, can't stress enough that there are members who either are not aware of the Forum, or have no access to computers. However, some recognition in the magazine would be appreciated. How else are we supposed to get a larger response to our events? Well, we, as the South-Texas Chapter, have started to put out flyers with all the info in regards to the chapter and annual meet. But why can't we get a short write-up in the magazine?

I too will compose a letter which I will send to Steve Pennaz in reference to this issue. Yet,  am in the middle of preparing for a State exam, and it will take me about two weeks before I can dedicate time and thought to that. But I will post a copy of that letter here as soon as I have it out in the mail.

There was a short period where I was thinking to ask for my membership dues back and just leave this behind me. But then I cam to my senses and realized, it's not about the club, but the people here and the friends I have made. Those are more important to me then anything else. So, I'm still here and a lifer for the rest of my existence.

Let's push on with this issue and perhaps some time down the road the club will response and change some of their policies in reference to this. We will never know if we don't try.

Once more, I appreciate everybodies support.

Guys, I must say that I respect the urgency.  Heck, me and many others have felt that way too, and we still do but are lacking in energy.  Many have "hammered" the editors and made phone calls in the past...Don't miss understand me here, please!  Doc has stated in the past, that news about an up coming meet should be sent in by...help me here Doc!  I believe before the first of the year.  Why?  Because the editors are about 6 months ahead as far as having specific issues completed and put to the press.  NOW, I am not saying not to do what you are doing, but try to understand the lack of enthusiasm by those of us who have been there and done that...Perhaps the best idea I have heard is a letter to Steve Penez (sp).  But be aware, we might not get a response!

This is the hurt I have felt since this entire issue has come up (since I joined as a matter of fact, by others), manifested by how we have been treated when the web site made the change.  RESPECT is the issue!  Someone once said to me, could you imagine how many replies a paid employee of the club would have to make on a countless number of issues?  That is probably why there is no response for any inquirey.

I have noticed that the number of folks that frequent this site has gone down drastically.  And I feel it is because those folks need a place more reliable to communicate at, a focal point if you will.  The membership here is close and I still feel that all we need is a reliable place to communicate.  Perhaps the best and most reliable way to communicat an event is by email or snail mail or phone.

Please don't misunderstand me, I aplaud (sp) everyones efforts.  But don't be dissappointed if there is less of a response to your requests from the membership than you expected.  Heck, even Joda is tired, not willing to rebuild again...So now is the time to think outside the box so to speak.  Identifing all the problems we have and getting every bodies ideas on how to correct / change / modify, without putting those ideas down out of hand.  So somewhere there needs to be a list maintained of all the issues (listed here and backed up on someones hard drive).  The first step...my two cents!  I hope I didn't offend anyone, because that was not my intent...

I ALSO "SHARE" MANY OF THE CONCERNS, "WE" AS MEMBERS HAVE. I'D LIKE TO GET INVOLVED IN ANYWAY POSSIBLE, (GROUP LETTER VIA SNAIL-MAIL, ELECTRONIC-MAIL), OR BY ANY MEANS FELLOW MEMBERS DECIDE TO UTILIZE! WE, BEING THE SO-TX-CHAPTER-NAFC: HAVE & ARE CONTINUING TO FIND WAYS TO GET MORE INVOLVED WITH THE COMMUNITY AS A "WHOLE"!  "MY HAT'S OFF" TO ALL THAT ARE ATTEMPTING TO "SPEARHEAD" OUR ISSUES AT HAND!! "THANK YOU ALL"!! HOPEFULLY THINGS WILL BE ADDRESSED! (OPTIONS), ARE ALWAYS AVAILABLE! REGARDLESS OF THE "ISSUE".                                      SINCERELY, JAMES CAMPOS SR. SAN ANTO JCSr."VATO LOCO"<;({})>< 

I must admit I see al ot of concerned members with a lot of good points about the mag, web site and member meets. All the things you would expect from a CLUB but I am afraid it is going to fall on deaf ears. I was a member 15 years ago and I got out for all the same reason that are now beinging brough back up again. I found no club help or support in any matter I have trying to start  a Mass chapter and have asked the editors many times how to about starting it I have yet recive a response. I have given up on trying . Pretty much the same as 15 years ago. Right now I just enjoy talking with fellow members and reading posts. I have exchanged some ideas with members gotten some good advice and hopefuly given some. Whatever you folks want to do I am in flood them with phone calls,e-mails or snail mail what can we do. I look forward to talking to fellow members in the future.

I once saw a poster that had a quote from Albert Einstein that said " Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results."  If you ask me that's what we have here. I think it's time to realize that this club isn't a club, it's a corporation with one goal in mind to make money. Use this site for what it is, a place to share our opinions, and make friends.  I don't need the title of club member to do that. Maybe some of you need to join a real fishing club at the local level to get the type of personal contact you strive for, cuz it just aint gonna happen here. Do I regret becoming a life member? No because I got to use this site for what I wanted, to communicate with other fishermen, and make friends, and I've had some of the best times of my life with those friends, and they would still be friends even if they weren't members. Do I feel loyalty to club? No, I know I'm just a speck of sand to them, but I don't care. I'm gonna go on living and fish the same regardless. It's like some of you are trying to ask for a date after you've been dumped for the 20th time. Move on, and focus on the positives of the club, and use the club for your gain, but don't expect too much from it.

Angry Bob NAFC Life Member Registered Smallie Fanatic

If you shoot Bigdog or Arv down in the Ohio section a PM, I am sure they will offer you a great deal of help on getting a chapter going. Do not give up. Just look in a different place for help, the members here far out way the club. And they usually don`t let you down.

Amen..........very well put Angry Bob..........you hit the nail on the head.

Pete:

To answewr your question regarding submission of "requests" to publish information for the various meets., it has long past!  If I recall the deadline was sometime in January, but don't  hold me to it.

Adding a chapter is a lot of work and takes time and patience. One thing we did not do is rely on the club for anything. We did the work on our own. The biggest bennefit that the club offers for establishing chapters is the BB providing us a way to reach out to members.

None of the officers in the Ohio chapter is against the club because it is the backbone to our organization. It is not controlled by the club but by the members, we maintain the NAFC as part of our group name because that is our roots. We do take pride in the club and do promote it when we can. That insures our growth.

Basser is right, there are so many people working the offices and different areas at the club headquarters one probably has no idea of everything going on. Writing one letter won't make a difference but if thousands of letters showed up at their door someone would surely take notice. For all of you concerned take pen in hand and write those letters and send them out, for those that aren't, continue sitting on your hands and do nothing. Or another solution is to sit in front of our computers and complain about the same thing over and over again. It has already been proven that the BB isn't getting the message across.

Look at the three choices and you will see the only difference between number 2 and 3 is your not sitting on your hands. I will be writing the letter, which by itself will mean nothing; but there is strength in numbers. Figure out which group you want to fall into and go for it.

Fire, the club is still a great club to be involved in don't let this thread detour you from joining, if this is the biggest complaint we have, then I would say we are doing pretty good.

whoa and thanks, i agree in what is being tried. but we need to be reminded of what we are really here for. THANKS DanO for that reminder. and angrybob, you to have made a great point and so have a lot of others.

The club is the perfect place for anybody, novice or pro. And I want to thank you for reminding us all of that. We can all learn from each other here, and that's what it is all about.  

This thread was started by Kaiman trying to get the editors attention and comments about having a little notice in the mag about up coming Meets. How great it would be if all the members who don`t use or have access to the web had the oppertunity to goin us. Get back on subject all you goofs. Write your letter. Seems that is what most are going to do, so help. This is somethig we should ALL agree on. We the members are the ones to gain the most from this. What would be better than meeting new members here? Meeting them in person.

Get a letter out.

WELCOME .......DAN O

This post is a great idea now if we can just get it started. I am writting a letter tonight the posin pen type. I would like to take this time to thank all the my fellow members, fishermen or fisherwomen who have passed on this sport or love of it to others. Like it was done to me by my father, uncles and grandfather. And I have passed to my son and his friends. What I like best about the site is that I have talked to many different people around the country. I live in Mass our fishing is a lot different than down south and mid west or on the left coast. It is fun to hear the different stories and tecqnics  from around the country. I hope to keep it going...

FAMOUS QUOTE

THE SQUEAKY WHELL GET THE GREASE SO LETS SQUEAK!!!!!!!!!!

First and foremost, I want to thank you, Ice Cube Bob for bringing this post to my attention. I have spent at least an hour reading this post from beginning to the latest post. I would also like to apologize to you and all of my other fellow members/friends on here for my lack of involvement here on this "new and improved" forum. I have been trying to post everyday in the ohio section so I can get my "Good Word For Today" posted for those members that like to read it every day....

Next, I agree with all of the above previous posts. I would like to add that I was a member of the NAFC first, and then we started up the Ohio Chapter. The key word there is "We" and not "I". While I am a life member of the NAFC, I am also the Co-Chairman of the Ohio Chapter as well as the Chaplain of the Ohio Chapter. Being an officer of the Ohio Chapter is alot of hard work, and very time consuming. Between my full time job as a local truck driver, and setting aside quality time for my family in the evening and helping maintain the Ohio Chapter's website/forum and our Ohio section on here, It's like working a second full time job each day. I'm not complaining, because I love my extended family that I have made in the Ohio Chapter, and I wouldn't have that if it weren't for the NAFC. We the members are what makes up this club, not the admin. I am very disappointed with the admin's lack of communication to all members here on the forum, especially since the change took place. I would also like to add, that I almost walked away from the club altogether at one point, and it took the words of a person that I do consider a friend and fellow member to make me realize that if I turned and walked away, that I would be turning and walking away from my fellow members and friends that I have made here on the 'ole BB. That man's handle here on the BB is none other than Ice Cube Bob. Thank You My Friend, for helping me see the light. Some may have thought that I had completely left the club, but I  had not. I was already registered on John H's site before the big changeover and was hanging out there until we got our Ohio Chapter's site up and running. I never left the club, but was so angry and disappointed that I was just about ready to until I got my senses back with the help of ICB....Thanks again buddy!!!!

Next, Kaiman....You have my full support my friend. I will be working on a letter of my own and will help in any way I possibly can. I do agree that we need to address the letters directly to Steve Pennaz. I will be researching some of the organizations and events that he actively supports and will also try to contact them as well. The more attention that we get on this problem from outside the box will get more attention on us. We have enough members here to do something about it, all we need to do is figure out the best way to do it. Anybody else have any ideas ? Y'all have a great evening from your friend in Ohio, BigDog.

BigDog, I am glad to see you back on here and thank you for your kind words. I understand what you are doing for the chapter is a lot of work. As you know, I am the Chairman of the South-Texas Chapter and it does require a lot of work and organization. I hope to be able to welcome you, and everybody else, to our forum some time. The reason for me staring this post should be appearant. The chapters and annual meets deserve some recognition from the club. Just a simple short write up in the magazine is all it needs. Perhaps us writing to Pennaz may change their views and attitudes towards our efforts.

BigDog, I hope to see you more often now on the froum. Too many of the "old gang" have left. Those are resources and valued friends who will be missed. Glad to have you on our side!

I am proud and happy to be a member and also will be penning a letter about this subject.   It might help me and possibly anyone else, if someone can post the exact address where you folks think this letter should be sent to achieve the best results.

Stealthfisher,  You also should send it at least certified mail this means that the person you address it to is the only one that can sign for it.

Send it to:

Steve Pennaz

North Amercian Fishing Club

12301 Whitewater Drive

Minnetonka, MN 55343-2103

Again for those that think Mr Pennaz is just a magazine editor he is not in fact he has very little to do with the content of the magazine what he is though is the Executive Director of the NAFC!

Thank you all for your show of concern!

I posted a while back that this was not a club I want to join. I still have my concerns I wonder if the club has become so big and so commercial that the average member means nothing. I do want to be a part of a membership of people who are so passionate about their club and sport that they just will not give up. I will pay my dues and join you in your effort. Please know this is not about paying my dues the money is so little it will not hurt it is about wasting my time and energy when I join something it gets 100%.

Thanks Basser,  I will be sending Mr Pennaz a certified letter.  It will be interesting to see if he accepts them.  I might just send one return receipt requested as well.  I am a former letter carrier, and had a lot of trouble getting people to sign for certified letters.  I think sometimes people are worried that it's a summons or a law suit.  I just glad to help.  There is strength in numbers.

I have read this thread, and I can't express how depressing this is.  Here we have a club for fishermen...and, like so many other things in this world it has been turned (or is starting to turn) into a money-making business more interested in generating profits than in taking care of it's members.  I was a member for 2 years and I enjoyed the magazine, but I never got any info on any local chapters or anything else dealing with "local" info.  This "club" is not for it's members...it is for $$$.  The more sponsers it can get, the more $$$ it will make.  It really doesn't NEED members.  To be honest, I don't even see it as a true "club".  In a club, everyone has a voice, the club has meetings, it gives back to the community, etc.  I see a lot of individuals trying to put together chapters, running chapters, or wanting to join chapters...only they are getting NO SUPPORT from the club itself.

People, it's time to realize that the "North American Fishing Club" is in fact the "North American Fishing Club, Inc".  It is a business and just like any other business it is made to make $$$, not protect "members"...no matter how long they have been a member.

My advice:  start your own club.  Get organized through this BB, get the info that you need, then never show up here again.  Cancel you memberships.  Start taking $$$ FROM their pockets, and you might be suprised at how quickly you will start getting responses from "on high". 

Just my $.02

ground2 thats what i said , kinda.... supply and demand, if they git less money they will have to do better public relations(maybe for the fromer memberes too), and then figure  out why they are not making money! if they knew how many members were from word of mouth or from diffrent meets they would help out more, but i think they think there junk mail is so cool and is selling the club by it's self? little do they know!  scam me once shame on you, scam me twice shame on you again, but see if i tell anyone to join if i think they will be(or feel) scam'd too, cuz then it is a shame on me, for passing on the scam...

i don't care if someone is a "MEMBER" (paid in full) or a guest, but i don't like takers or users,  if people  share in the teaching learning laughing it's all good! if i git to fish with a few of un's in person, 2cool! 

we need less bitchin and more fishin! LOL! go catch um and beat`um with a club, like the admins do here!!it wont fix anything but it may make you feel better!

YEPPERS WHAT YALL SAID!!! L8r. James,"VATO LOCO"<;({})><

IT BE "THE AMERICAN WAY," L8r. James,"VATO LOCO"<;({})><

 Its time to just realize that this club only needs us to push off all the crap to buy. Advertisements from all the vendors. This inturn will pay for them and their clonies to go on those dream fishing trips and hunts. Who do you think pays for all that. Not the dues we pay. It cost one about 400$ for a life suply of this mag and the bb. That doesn't pay much even multiplied buy 400thou. We just need to accept that we are all bein played. It would be nice if on their way out are back-side that that they could aknowlegde the efforts of some of their mems. By putting in the mag,

     MEMBER MEETS

       How much room could this possibly take up?

Those states that have organized their own chapters, I take my hat off to you!  Texas and Ohio (the only two I know of) have worked hard to provide what I had thought the national level would provide.  Or at least support those efforts.  It has been said that this is not a true club, and I agree with that on the North American level.  BigDog initiated last year the starting of local chapters.  He attempted to open a dialogue between himself and the various members in each state.  He also communicated with the "head office" to determine if that was ok with them.  In fact, the "head office" encouraged this and communicated a desire to see this happen.  As I look back on this it makes me wonder if this was a means to remove the responsibility from their shoulders, we'll probably never know for sure.

But one thing I am hearing from everyone is that we are "family".  With many of the same concerns and dreams.  The biggest obstacle we face is the inability to communicate effectively with each other and our respective communities in general.  I have said this for some time, we need a website that reflects the "needs" of the membership and a club mag that assists in communicating the important issues of the membership as well as timely and factual articals.  As it stands now we are only getting a small part of what we need to be successful as a club.

So, where does all this conversing take us?  A letter writing campaign to the executive director is a good start.  But perhaps a follow-up review of what is involved in a state chapter is also a good idea.  Comunicating to your local membership (members) about the needs in each state.  I remember when BigDog posted in the Pa. thread, there didn't seem to be much need or desire to dedicate the time and resources to organize a state chapter.  At that time we (all) had a good website even though the mag was letting us down.  And someone posted that this is an area where the "head office" can be of help...Perhaps!  Those states that have organized their own chapters also have a central point of communicating, a wesite that they created and maintain.  This is what is needed on a North American level as well.  And I am seeing individuals attempting to accomplish this.  Individuals that have the same "urgency".  I guess what I am saying is that it will take several members in each state with the same urgency, vision and drive to get things rolling.

I hope I didn't offend anyone, as this is not my intent.  But one thing is for certain, the "head office" can not be relied upon for much help at this time.  Let us hope that the letter writing campain makes an impact.  My two cents...

To put the chapter, and even the meets, together is time consuming and involves a lot of work and effort. But it is worth it, because members are getting together, put names to the faces, and are getting involved in activities. All this benefits the community, individals, as well as the club's reputation. Let's face it, these events make people aware that this place, and the NAFC, even exist. It is hard to believe, but even at places like Bass pro Shops here in San Antonio, they have no idea what the NAFC is. Who promotes this club? We do!

I have said this before, and I will say it again: all we would like from the club is some recognition in the magazine. I seriously doubt that the people in charge realize that there are members out there who do not come to the website, nor the forum. How difficult is it for them to mention our names, locations, e-mails,  and perhaps dates for the meets/chapter meetings/events? I even write it for them, if they would agree to print it.

Why not have a section in the magazine which is dedicated to the annual meets and chapters? Only a few lines will suffice. Throw us a bone, for crying out loud. We buy the merchandise from them, we pay our dues, we even buy stuff off their ads. Are we just numbers, not humans?? What good is a club for if the leaders of the club don't listen to their members?

I am glad to belong to this family, which has been very supportive in many ways over the years. It just sadens me that we have lost valuable members due to the club's negligence and ignorance. I miss friends such as: joda, papaD, lipripper, and so on. Those are some of the people who have made this place what it is now.

Amazing all of that money spent on a television show, and a magazine, and there are still people out there who have never heard of the club. Here we have people willing to campaign and promote the club for them for free, and they won't lift a finger. Wise marketing practices at work there. I have never once heard Pennaz mention the club members on the show. Kinda like we're that crazy relative no one wants to talk about, and heaven forbid they actually fish with a real member. Why not at least flash some pics of actual members with some of their catches. Wait a minute then it might start to resemble an actual club. Anyway good luck with it guys.

Angry Bob NAFC Life Member Registered Smallie Fanatic

Well put guys.

Just a little info i would like to share.

In the last few weeks there was a time that me and a few others could not log into the site. I e-mailed member services about it. Got a response a couple days later, after it was working of course. They wanted name, member #, phone #, addy..........I was just going to delete it, everything was working by then. But i thought, hey i got a real live person here. LOL. So this is what i sent him.

Hey Jason, seems like several members were having the same problem for a couple days. All seems to be working OK now.

Seeing i got a real person here, maybe a couple more questions.

1. Is the page button on the " New and Improved" (not)  site something that is able to be fixed? It would be really nice if that function worked.

2. In the Ask the Editors section of the BB there is a thread called Club Involvement. What is the chance of getting a Editor on there with a response?

Got a response from them today.

Thanks for being a member. I apologize this functions is currently not working, we are reviewing this issue. I have forwarded your additional question to the editor. Please let us know if you have any additional questions.

Thanks for being a member,

I seriously doubt that your message will be forewarded to the editors, but thanks for trying. It would surprise me if I ever see a response from any editors, or administrator for that matter, on here on any matter. But prove me wrong. Please!!

It would be a joyous day when I see anything mentioned in the magazine that involves the annual meets or chapters. That would make a big difference in our efforts in getting memebers together for such events. As of right now, we are restricted to the forum, our own forums, and flyers. But how many members can we reach that way? Not too many. Texas, for instance, is large and I know that there are many NAFC members out here. But how can our chapter reach all of them if not through the magazine?

Again, thanks for your effort, ice cube bob. I hope that they keep their promise to pass it on and some one will check in.

i think there are only 2 choices we have(3 if we just live with it)... 1 boycot the club!it's simple and easy for us to do so online...  or #2 is that  we have not done enuff for the club yet to git there attintion, and need to do more! ask not what are club can do for us but what can we do for a club... maybe the club would like us to clean the freeways, and git there name on one of those signs(great advertisement), or maybe are meets need to be bigger to be noticed & have music preformers, pro fisherman, electronic bull riding,  hang grabing tanks, bigger door prises and turnies derbies ,all set up like a fair, then when we put it all together the club will havta listen... right?......if not, maybe thats not enuff either, maybe we should do more? what do boy scouts do? or other clubs... pay and then what?  

Hey Turnip:

I just re-read all of these posts from Page #1 to the end.  You stated that you came across some members at Gwinn who knew nothing of the meet.  I know I am older than you, but did you say anything about this at the meet?  If you did I must have either missed it or mis-understood. Could you please provide me with some information about this so maybe it can be corrected??????

one thought for how the editors & club can help in the meet ups with the mag is to put a dissclaimer, like "las vegas's" what happens in vegas....you know....but if they put a add up to advertise a meet, they should put in there they(the club owners) are not resposible or liable and you should use your own discrestion in who you boat with fish with, camp with and other extra activities.... they should want us to have fun, help us have fun but still be a wee~bit safe from people who sew and such...no one here can promise a meet with out insodent...if a camp trip was always effortless and always perfect i would probbaly not camp anymore, and stay @ home and watch others peoples adventures on tv....LOL

here is one dissclaimer i stole from the CA floater club, and changed the name to the full moon fishing club...if the club did this it would not put blaim back on their self later.... maybe?

All trips organized by FMFC or NAFC(FULL~MOON~FISH'N~CLUB or Norht American fishing club) members are strictly cooperative
recreational activities, and each individual participating in those
activities is responsible for deciding when, where, and with whom
to boat. FMFC/nafc meets are totally noncommercial and is not a guide service.

(the fmfc/nafc is not responsible for any members action.

points views & opinions of members  are or may not be the proper opinions or guidelines of the club it's self)

have fun but don't blame us kinda...!

...somthin` like these should be add'd to cover the clubs BUTT!!!  

At least you have tried, even if Pennaz will never get that letter. Yet, there may still be chance that your letter will end up on his desk, and that something may change. I myself am composing a letter as we speak. I ill send it off as soon as it is ready to go. Let's keep the fingers crossed that we will see our chapters and meets printed in the magazine!

I didn't see any posts from the editors. Yet I have to agree, any advise on this subject matter, either from the editors or any other entity with some say, will help. It just seems that everybody is either ignoring us, or they just don't care!

I see where they have posted something. Just something of a note that they have seen the post. I doubt that they realy going to read much. Just a pacifier, I guess.

It says editor, but who ensures me that it is not just an intern? A name would be nice. Some one we know from the magazine.

Kai; Life Member; South-Texas Chapter Chairman; http://south-texasnafcchapter.lefora.com/forum/ ; 2337 Posts on old Forum/BB; Atascosa, Texas (just ouside San Antonio)

POST DELETED TO AVOID FURTHER CRITICISM. 

I don't think that any Editor (or Intern) will ever read this post, nor respond. If some one realy takes the time, and respond to this in a professional manner, would be a surprise to me. It is amazing how topics were chosen by the "editor" and others, like this one, completely ignored. Almost as if one of two things happened: 1) this person was getting ready for the weekend and just needed something to look busy with until it was time to go home, or 2) this post is too close to a "sensitive topic" that no one will stand up and be man enough to answer us

We'll see what happens.  

All I meant was it was the first time I saw any response At All from anyone other than a member.  I agree with you that they were selective on which to respond to, but, I was only hoping it was a positive sign.  Only time will tell if this is the start of something good.  I hope they keep at it by answering the tough questions as well as the easier ones.

This is the 2nd time I am attempting this post???????

Yes there are 4 responses from the club ion "Ask the Editor's" thread. But can you read the quesions submitted? No!  Also the last response is dated Jan3. More than a week has passed since he stated there would be another update.  If they cannot follow their own deadlines, what makes anyone think they will respond to this thread?

"Doc" Life Member NAFC Best Club Around Life Member VFW. Had 4,000 + posts under old ID

I have only recently (last year) found the web site and didn't know about the get together in Gwinn at all untill JTC posted about it . At first I thought it was a biker meet, like Sturgis.  I can't go this year, but I can save my pennies for next. I have never seen anything that I remember about it in the mag at all.  Not that that means anything, I've got CRS real bad.  Have fun.

Greenlantern, Life Member since 1996

Thanks for making my point. And there are many more like you, who are not aware of this site, or don't have access to computers (yes, those people still exist). How else are we supposed to reach them?A short note in the magazine, combined with contact numbers, will be very helpful.

Kaiman,  I agree totally that the only way I knew how to get involved with the OH Chapter was through this site.(The Old One).  Anyhow, we will have to wait and see as far as any response I get from my letter.  We (an OH Chapter member) has contacted the club about our meet in May and are waiting a response as far as a donation for our raffle.  Last year they donated 2 free memberships which I thought was great at least it was something.  As of our planning meeting on March 1st we haven't heard from them but, then we haven't heard from alot of the large corporations in regards to donations?

Keep plugging away our Chapter is growing weekly we now have 55 members here in the OH chapter!:-}

**************************************************************

DOC

The posts that stealhfisherman and others are talking about are the posts made by the editor on Friday the 29th to 7  topics here on the BB and "ask the editors" 

I'm asuming that your talking about the "forum feedback thread" where member can post their concerns but cann't read them.

Just to let everyone know they also posted a 5th post to "forum feedback" it's invisable LOL  they must have forgot to unlock the topic so it shows up

"It says that they have removed the ad's from the right side of the forum because members using operating systems like  fire fox  etc, had problems with overlapping of their posts into the ad's."

Thank you Basser for all you have done in this thread and in the Ohio chapter.

The death of a loved one is one of the hardest thing to accept. Good luck guys.

hey oldgaurdangler, why don't you ask for more they gave you your canoe kayak topic so why not ask for more.....

NAFC Editors wrote:

Friends,

Although this may appear to be very long winded, it’s actually a very high level overview of my opinion, based on what I’ve found.

First, Allow Me to Digress:

I used to work for a large corporation whom, at the time I first started working there, published its primary, core value as “To Delight Our Customers through Our Service.”  During that time, our customers were happy, the employees were happy, management was happy, and the stock price continued to rise at a steady rate. 

Then they change executive management.  They made a very large, public announcement that our new core value was “To Provide Share Holder Value.”  The stock price spiked quickly up to an all time high, then has dropped steadily ever since.  In less than ten years, this once major American Corporation is nearly out of business.  Their product is now considered sub-standard by the public.  Most of the employees are gone, and the community took a major hit to the local economy.  Did I mention that the executives who started down this path managed to get their stock options vested early, and left before the dive?

What happened, in my humble opinion, was the new leaders of this company chose to forget their customers who had been loyal to their product for years in order to make a fast buck and get out!  i.e. Take the money and run.  That is pretty much how large corporations work.

What Does This Have to Do With Our Fishing Club? 

I did a little research.

First, take a look at this web site: http://www.northamericanmediagroup....out_us.htm

This is the history of the parent company that founded the NAFC.  It was a family operation, who appeared to genuinely care about the members, aka their customers, and actually ran the organization as if it were a club.  About the time the last Jamboree was held, or shortly after, the family sold their company to another, larger company called CUC International. 

Now take a look at this web site:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUC_International

CUC International is a large conglomerate corporation whose business is marketing and advertising.  They are also big into hotels and time-shares.  Did I say they were very large?  The bad news; until the ENRON debacle, CUC International was involved in one of the largest corporate scandals to date.   Their executive management has done jail time for their involvement.  If you don’t believe me, simply go to Google, and do a search on “CUC International”.

As a corporation, in order to maintain or grow stock price, they must justify a Return on Investment (ROI) on any product or initiative they undertake.  If there is not a substantial ROI, they will not do it.  At the moment, they are likely receiving a fairly good return on what they provide now with the status quo. 

One could make the argument that if they took the time to address the members concerns and respond to our wishes, it would return a degree of revenue in their favor.  That’s true, but they have likely done market research, (and they are an advertising and marketing company, so you can bet they’ve done a lot of research,) that predicts a brief spike in revenue that will not last long enough to return a substantial ROI.

Now, for the Good News:

We paid our dues.  If you’re a Life Member, you paid a lot of dues.  …And honestly, we got what we paid for!  We received some nice perks, including a decent rod and reel.  We also received a cool belt buckle, a nice certificate, and an embossed membership card identifying us as Life Members.  I was able to purchase a nice library of beautiful books on fishing that were very reasonably priced.  I would venture to say, that NAFC did not make any money on the revenue received from our dues, but that was never their intent.

Another two things we receive as members, are the lifetime magazine subscription and the web site, which includes all if its articles, information, and the Member Forum.  Now, I’ll admit that the magazine is not as good as Field & Stream, but I have to agree that it’s a far cry better than some of the other publications dedicated to the outdoor enthusiasts.  I know from experience, that the initial expense of setting up a web site is not that great, but keeping it maintained with updated, relevant information, as well as the technical maintenance can add up very quickly.

So, if we as “members” are getting all this nifty stuff for the cost of our membership, how is NAFC, and its parent organization making any profit?  (As I stated above about corporations, if it’s worth doing, it’s worth doing for profit!)  Their return on investment is obtained through advertising revenue.  The magazine and web site are full of advertising, not to mention all the other ads and offers you’ve likely received, such as the cookbooks, classical music, credit cards, and history books.

The unique advertising the corporation is offering to its clients and customers is not your regular, run of the mill spam.  It is targeted to a specific market.  In our case, they can go to a company, such as Rapala or Zebco, and say we can put your ad specifically in front of the sport fisherman, not just the general public.  Since the product advertising is focused, it is more cost effective.  I suspect the cost of such advertising is more expensive than the normal shotgun approach, but for the cost is like more effective and cost efficient.  Another thing NAFC can offer its customer is not only is the advertising being focused on sport fishermen, they can precisely focus on individual market segments, such as crappie fishermen versus bass fisherman.  (Taken any NAFC Surveys lately?) 

Summary:

I guess what it all boils down to, is we’re really not a club in the traditional sense.  We’re more like a Mega Focus Group.  Is this a bad thing?  Not at all!  Like I said above, we all got what we paid for, and likely then some.  Are we being exploited?  Not really.  If you looked at the fine print when we signed on, we all agreed to allow NAFC to use our information for marketing purposes.  Is the “Corporation” a big nasty entity trying to steal your hard earned dollar?  No.  Not more than any other large corporation.  They’re just doing their job for their stock holders.  In this case, I don’t see anything illegal or immoral going on.   

With regard to all the outstanding things and events many of you have been doing; I think you’re doing a very spectacular thing, not only for the Sport of Fishing, but for your local communities as well.  I wouldn’t stop doing it, but on the other hand, I wouldn’t expect NAFC to actively take part, because as I explained above, NAFC is not really a club, it’s a marketing organization.  Perhaps if the events were planned or presented in such a way, where NAFC Members had an event to meet and interact with the Product Vendors that NAFC sells advertising to, and if they believed such an event was big enough that it would put a substantial number of fishermen in front of the product makers, they may take notice.

In the mean time, I suggest we continue to enjoy fishing as we always have.  Enjoy the friends we meet, and the exchange of ideas and information.  If NACF tosses us a bone from time to time, wonderful!  Enjoy it!   In the big picture, I really don’t think we have much to complain about.

Good Luck!

Life Member Since 2003

I gotta say, nicely stated.  And it adds to the level of frustration already being experienced by the "club members"!  Imagine, I thought I was joining a club!  Well folks, we'll just have to do it on our own...

First order of business, the location of a web site that will address our communication needs without additional cost.

Secondly, identify potential ideas for getting "club" members that are not aware of "club" activities (member meets, etc), informed and brought up to speed...

This web site is slower than molasses in June. In Antarctica. When I took a semester of economics as a hs senior, 1967, our teacher said that 6 to 8 cents on the dollar was a good roi. Now shareholders want 10 cents or better. In two quarters or less. It's immeadiate graification taken to the extreme. RCA sold the VCR to Sony because they weren't smart enough to see a market. Guess who got rich? But it took time and no one remembers;  " If you want it bad you'll get it bad. The worse you want it the worse you'll get it." My  Dad told me to take my time and do it right. That applies to business as well as handiwork.
  

we had a real nice web site that one of the members made.  what happen to it ?can't we get that back and be on your own??/ that was a real nice, easy to use site. and no bitching going on there.

                        inquireing minds would like to know.

                                   moose

It is a sad fact that America becomes more and more corporate. Even this "club" seems to fit into that bracket. Thanks to Purpsage, most of us now have a better understanding of what this "club" realy is, a corporation.

Nonetheless, how difficult is it for them to have anything about the chapters or annual meets in the magazine? I bet that many here are even willing to pay a couple of bucks to get the events printed, just to get the word out. Just throw us a bone here. Juts a few lines, one paragraph.  

 good write up pursage!

i know they did kinda listen when i and a few others bitch'd about "smoking" add's in the mag, or atleast they have takin alot of those add out for some reason? now if they could git rid of the male inhancement products and sexual products i could let my kids/girls read/look at the mag easy'r....

i think the club needs to give us a page or 2, for what ever we want, things  could be sent in from non web users too, like the members stories and meets... but a dissclaimer is NEEDED 4sure....this would protect the corperation and us all, and we know that we are responsable for anything we do and it does not reflect badly on the club(they do that allready)... to goto a unsponserd NAFC meet seems silly thO`, expesialy if you advertise more for the "club"...it's the "AMWAY" cycle.... we sell it if we addvertise it, if we stop that, they may need to recalculate whats wrong... i can say i would take my NAFC decals off my boat for starters, i can also say i never have got a friend to join(i would hate for them to hate me for it later when they feel kinda screwd )

but what makes me try to stay here is the thought that i help someone or something,(thanx for the recontion in pm's) i realise it ain't that easy thO`.... no one cares how the BB is run,( or what i see, no one is on the same page) we use`ta have a topic for a member in "need" stay close to the top for weeks in the misc. section now the useless post just keep comin and bumps those post so far out of view!... there is no keeping it organized & there is only so much space to hold pure BS post on a server, so in short this will resolt in a new BB sooner with more info spread out farther.... why try any more? i can't cuz i feel no one wants to anyway... post away! but there will be less info that will be lost the next time around 4sure, cuz no one is putting info in to proper topics that will stay alive and test time it`self....maybe somewhere is that site that is kept neat with topics that continue to grow with info and opinions of what works great for them while fishing/boating/parting/camping .... maybe there's not..?

i know there is/was some great people on this site that have givin up trying to keep order, me too! but i can't leave, it's the one spot that i can meet people to fish with, i think that alone is worth putting up with alot of bs! anyone who has not met a members in person needs to! you may not find your dream fishing partener but you could learn somethin new or teach somethin old? to share is worth that alone.... remember people are people and if we were all the same it would be a boring place! so i will still try to meet people/members on this site and keep the FMFC(full moon fishing club) going...(owe ya~fmfc is a non comercail & needs no money and makes no money)LOL) i just want to meet up with new fishers from time to time...and try to help or give my opinion, in a organized way( i can not give a opinion on fishing line anymore! dam!!! there are 500+(i didnt count) fishing line question... why?? 

i reccomend dropping the name NAFC from your meets(if they don't wana help), call it  the TEXAS FISHING CLUB  meet,,,, or do some sort of unafiliation to the "CLUB" that beats us....

 sorry, i did forgit,  this place is great for venting too!!!!

and kai if  you change your name for a meet and drop NAFC, i would still stop by if i was close, it's just a name!!! lol KAIMAN'S meet and greet sounds good! screw the nafc if they don't want to help you help them...

also kaiman you can edit the first post you made in this thread, just to be more eye dropping for the editors !!! quote alot of post that make cents, like puresage's and if the editors or addmins ever read the first post they might see somthing worth reading on about? just a thought, i dout it would work but you never know... 

One thing I think we all agree on.  There are some downright decent people who contribute to these postings.  Real people with real feelings, opinions, and ideas are the “members” of this "organization." 

I expected that almost everyone would respond to my "major posting" with a flame thrower!  It's good to see that so far, everyone has responded to it within the sprit it was intended.  I hope it does some good for dealing with the overall issues.

I’m proud to be associated with you!

Good Luck!

what? i cant hear you mr.bill! LOL, i don't have a problem posting but i always hit refresh, like, every time i do anything i hit refresh cuz it is never uptodate/time,i wish they did put a clock on the side so i know i have the freshest post listed, it seems sometimes i am log'd out right after i log in? 

i keep gitting this comeing up! LOL! anyone else? 

purplesage, you pulled down the curtain and let us see the OZ, it hurts but why shoot the messanger! thanx 4 the eye~opener!!!

now if i could find those red stilletos....

 yeah baby!

do behave! 

to much austin powers, last night...LOL!

I agree completely

Hello, all. Just returned from a week-plus out of the office, and am getting ready to leave again this afternoon for the rest of the week. Heading to the ICAST show (fishing trades) in Florida.

Man, has this thread been on fire since I've been gone. There are so many comments and questions along this thread, I can't get to them all here. But the main one focuses on Member Meets.

One fact that many of you have heard before centers on the legal liability it would require to officially sanction local events. I, for one, would not want to see the Club burdened with such insurance premiums.

As for getting the word out, when it comes to events such as Member Meets, the best tool in the world is at your fingertips. I check the MM topic and have seen how well you all communicate on it. Through the forum, you reach out to fellow members immediately with updates, notices, and reminders right up to the date of the event. That's something any print publishing schedule can't accomplish.

Lastly, the Club has not been owned by CUC International for roughly 10 years. Just for the record.