What a relief...I fish and accept that our atmosphere is changing
Last Post 28 Mar 2009 10:14 PM by t u r t l e. 14 Replies.
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t u r t l eUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:77 t u r t l e
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28 Mar 2009 10:14 PM

    I have to say that I am again proud to be a life member here.  That our editorial staff and writers are deciding that  a simple party line stance on every issue that exists is not healthy gives me the first hope for America I've had in....well forever.  I'm speaking of the magazines stance on the obvious truth of global warming and it's impact on our future. 

    To hear people speak about something so proven and factual as a hoax is saddening. But thus is a society that is dualistic.  I am absolutly amazed that the culb, who's heart and soul is a typical right wing based membership, has the sac to dive into the grey middle where the truth is found.  

    Truth isn't on one side or the other...meaning republican (sportsmen) or democratic (gun fearing tree huggers)....It is in the grey that is inbetween....It's decided issue be issue, by free thinking individuals.  Whenever I try to talk to fellow sportsmen about global warming I always hear about this place or that where the avg. temp dropped over the last few years. 

     But here is the thing, at it's most elemental.  Heat (warming) is, in physics and chemistry, the equvelant of motion at a molecular level.  Any physical substance,  especially gas like our atmosphere or even water boiling in a pot on a stove moves more as it recieves and retains more heat. thats the difference betweeen a slow simmer and a hard boil as we cook.

    With the delicate balance of the atmosphere we live in, as the heat accumulates, the atmosphere "boils" more.  Meaning it Moves more...if you can back away and think of the increse in violent storms...more class 5 tornados...more hurricanes hitting the eastern USA...more colder air hitting souther areas recently...Well thats exacly what happens when the simmer becomes a hard boil.  Whats cold up north or at the top of the pot  moves down... and record low temps. are recorded farther south.  Whats down in the pot moves up...and warmer southern air melts the glaciers.  It really not rocket science...it as simple as that.

    And so I dare all of you...every sportsman.  regardless of your voting habit. To think for yourself...and plan...purchase...vote...act...and do what ever you decide...based on what you think...But please think.  Don't just recite the words of people who you have decide they should think for you in the past based on your political party. 

    Believe me neither republicans or democrats want anything to do with me.  I shoot and fish...and I believe that helping people here in the USA with federal money won't ruin the USA...not to mention that a woman has the right to end a pregnancy...So there you go...I got enemys everywhere.  But I decide on issues.  Not on part lines.

    I dare you to.

    Turtle

    ConsrvatvUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:1 Consrvatv
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    30 Mar 2009 06:15 AM

    These are my words and beliefs, as a Bible reader, high school graduate and life experience understudy.

    I agree that global warming and cooling happens and has happened for thousands of years. Who do we blame for the confirmed ice ages or ancient rain forrests? What happened to 1970s predictions of the impending ice age in the then next decade? 

    There are just as many and maybe more scientists who have studied and issued reports that man has little or no effect on global warming. The fact is that the earth's atmosphere and oceans have been cooling for the last 10 years. Thus the shift to the "climate change" phrase.

    The theory of man made global warming was introduced in the 1980s by a man named Maurice Strong. George Soros bought into the theory and monetarily backed it. Al Gore has recently profited from the theory.

    Unless basic science has changed in the last 45 years, carbon dioxide is what we exhale and what plants inhale. Now some would have us believe CO2 is bad and it should be taxed in some way. Looks to me like political greed for our hard earned money is the real issue.

    As far as killing humans, I don't know what that has to do with global warming unless it would mean less CO2.

    davesett2000User is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:2212 davesett2000
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    30 Mar 2009 06:26 PM

    NASA data for the last 10 years...

     

    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2008/


    Life Member David BB Linkmeister US Army '78-'85 West Central Wisconsin Photobucket
    Life Member David 2001 BB Linkmeister US Army 1978-1985 Western Wisconsin Photobucket
    muskyharryUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:1 muskyharry
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    31 Mar 2009 08:38 AM

    I only hope that Turtle read your post.  Man cannot create global warming. The weather cycles continue to cycle as they have for millions of years. We have only been studying weather fo 150 yrs., so what gives us the right to think that all of a sudden, we know it all. all the scientific data that has been compiled is only 50 to 60 yrs old. I rest my case   

                              Regards,   muskyharry

    davesett2000User is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:2212 davesett2000
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    31 Mar 2009 06:11 PM

    Well muskieharry...did you actually GO to the NASA website link I posted above and look at the maps and charts....or READ any of the info there?

     

    In regards to your comment that MAN cannot create glogal warming...are you trying to tell us that over 6 BILLION humans can't affect global warming?

     

    http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

     

    And you're going to TRY to convince folks that over 500 MILLION vehicles on the roads don't contribute to global waming?

     

    http://www.worldwatch.org/node/1537

     

    My NEXT question to ALL of you that are whining about "what's happened over millions of years ago" is....

     

    Was there EITHER of those things on the planet over the last million years?

     

    I'm just getting started about this TOPIC  I hope some MORE folks come up here and TRY to state "this is what I believe" versus facts.

     

    It will be interesting to see how SOME of you TRY to repudiate the facts I just posted in here.

     

    muskyharry wrote:

    I only hope that Turtle read your post.  Man cannot create global warming. The weather cycles continue to cycle as they have for millions of years. We have only been studying weather fo 150 yrs., so what gives us the right to think that all of a sudden, we know it all. all the scientific data that has been compiled is only 50 to 60 yrs old. I rest my case   

                              Regards,   muskyharry



    Life Member David BB Linkmeister US Army '78-'85 West Central Wisconsin Photobucket
    Life Member David 2001 BB Linkmeister US Army 1978-1985 Western Wisconsin Photobucket
    MrpackfanUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:4 Mrpackfan
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    01 Apr 2009 12:31 PM

    MrpackfanUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:4 Mrpackfan
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    01 Apr 2009 12:39 PM

    MrpackfanUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:4 Mrpackfan
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    01 Apr 2009 12:41 PM
    Mrpackfan wrote:
    CONSRVATV WROTE:There are just as many and maybe more scientists who have studied and issued reports that man has little or no effect on global warming. The fact is that the earth's atmosphere and oceans have been cooling for the last 10 years. Thus the shift to the "climate change" phrase


    FishingInTheSunshineState "Cooling for the last 10 years?"....Tell that to the Polar Bears as the ice they so greatly rely on continues to melt away and they become ever closer to extinction!
    davesett2000User is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:2212 davesett2000
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    02 Apr 2009 04:09 PM

    Why don't people post links to websites etc...that supposedly state (with backup data etc...) that "temps are actually cooling"...instead of just coming on Forums and such and "stating so"?

     

    I guess that we're just supposed to BELIEVE them that it's the truth

     

    Seems to me....seeing the various videos on the Internet that have been posted of the ice melting at the caps...that it's just not normal.

     


    Life Member David BB Linkmeister US Army '78-'85 West Central Wisconsin Photobucket
    Life Member David 2001 BB Linkmeister US Army 1978-1985 Western Wisconsin Photobucket
    et1770User is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:3 et1770
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    06 Apr 2009 10:17 AM

    Sure the planet temperatures are cycling. They have been since the beginning of time. However, while Arctic ice has shrunk, Antarctic ice has increased  http://nsidc.org/seaice/characteris...ence.html. << ( This is a posted link)

    If the whole planet is indeed warming, wouldn't both areas be experiencing an overall decrease in ice?

    My one question that no global warming theorist has been able to answer is:

    What melted the glaciers and killed the wooley mammoth? We didn't have automoblies or air conditioners contributing to a warming planet when that happened.

     

    davesett2000User is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:2212 davesett2000
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    06 Apr 2009 01:43 PM

     

    Life Member David 2001 BB Linkmeister US Army 1978-1985 Western Wisconsin Photobucket
    davesett2000User is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:2212 davesett2000
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    06 Apr 2009 01:43 PM

     

    Life Member David 2001 BB Linkmeister US Army 1978-1985 Western Wisconsin Photobucket
    davesett2000User is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:2212 davesett2000
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    06 Apr 2009 01:47 PM
    I don't see this as being an ice buildup in the Antarctic....
     
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090406/sc_nm/us_antarctica_ice
     
     
    Ice bridge holding Antarctic ice shelf cracks up
     
    OSLO (Reuters) – An ice bridge which had apparently held a vast Antarctic ice shelf in place during recorded history shattered on Saturday and could herald a wider collapse linked to global warming, a leading scientist said.
     
    "It's amazing how the ice has ruptured. Two days ago it was intact," David Vaughan, a glaciologist with the British Antarctic Survey, told Reuters of a satellite image of the Wilkins Ice Shelf on the Antarctic Peninsula.
     
    The satellite picture, from the European Space Agency (ESA), showed that a 40 km (25 mile) long strip of ice believed to pin the Wilkins Ice Shelf in place had splintered at its narrowest point, about 500 meters wide.
     
    "We've waited a long time to see this," he said.
     
    The Wilkins, now the size of Jamaica or the U.S. state of Connecticut, is one of 10 shelves to have shrunk or collapsed in recent years on the Antarctic Peninsula, where temperatures have risen in recent decades apparently because of global warming.
     
    The ESA picture showed a jumble of huge flat-topped icebergs in the sea where the ice bridge had been on Friday, pinning the Wilkins to the coast and running northwest to Charcot Island.
     
    "Charcot Island will be a real island for the first time in history," Vaughan said.
    Vaughan, who landed on the flat-topped ice bridge on the Wilkins in January in a ski-equipped plane with other scientists and two Reuters reporters, said change in Antarctica was rarely so dramatic. It was the first -- and last -- visit to the area.
     
    The loss of the ice bridge, jutting about 20 meters out of the water and which was almost 100 km wide in 1950, may now allow ocean currents to wash away far more of the Wilkins shelf.
     
    "My feeling is that we will lose more of the ice, but there will be a remnant to the south," said Vaughan. Ice shelves float on the water, formed by ice spilling off Antarctica, and can be hundreds of meters thick.
     
    Nine other shelves have receded or collapsed around the Antarctic Peninsula in the past 50 years, often abruptly like the Larsen A in 1995 or the Larsen B in 2002 further north.
     
    DISAPPEAR FROM MAP
     
    Cores of sediments on the seabed indicate that some of these ice shelves had been in place for at least 10,000 years. Vaughan said an ice shelf would take many hundreds of years to form.
     
    In January, the remaining ice bridge had been surrounded by icebergs the size of shopping malls, many of them trapped in sea ice. A few seals were visible lolling on sea ice in the low Antarctic sunshine.
     
    On that visit, Vaughan put up a GPS satellite monitoring device and predicted the ice bridge would break within weeks. The plane left quickly, in case the ice was unstable on a part of the world about to disappear from the map.
     
    Temperatures on the Antarctic Peninsula have risen by up to about 3 Celsius (5.4 Fahrenheit) in the past 50 years, the fastest rate of warming in the Southern Hemisphere.
     
    "We believe the warming on the Antarctic Peninsula is related to global climate change, though the links are not entirely clear," Vaughan said. Antarctica's response to warming will go a long way to deciding the pace of global sea level rise.
     
    About 175 nations have been meeting in Bonn, Germany, since March 29 as part of a push to agree by the end of 2009 a new U.N. treaty to combat climate change. The talks end on April 8.
     
    The loss of ice shelves does not affect sea levels -- floating ice contracts as it melts and so does not raise ocean levels. But their loss can allow glaciers on land to slide more rapidly toward the sea, adding water to the oceans.
     
    The Wilkins does not have much ice pent up behind it. But bigger ice shelves to the south on the frozen continent, where no major warming has been detected, hold back far more ice.
     
    et1770 wrote:

    Sure the planet temperatures are cycling. They have been since the beginning of time. However, while Arctic ice has shrunk, Antarctic ice has increased  http://nsidc.org/seaice/characteristics/difference.html. << ( This is a posted link)

    If the whole planet is indeed warming, wouldn't both areas be experiencing an overall decrease in ice?

    My one question that no global warming theorist has been able to answer is:

    What melted the glaciers and killed the wooley mammoth? We didn't have automoblies or air conditioners contributing to a warming planet when that happened.

     



    Life Member David BB Linkmeister US Army '78-'85 West Central Wisconsin Photobucket
    Life Member David 2001 BB Linkmeister US Army 1978-1985 Western Wisconsin Photobucket
    t u r t l eUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:77 t u r t l e
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    07 Apr 2009 12:01 PM

    People will believe what they wish. 

    I made no attempt to state that man is or was the sole cause of any environmental change.  I was taught in highschool biology many Many years ago that every living organism changes it's environment by the waste it produces....then other life forms evolve and thrive on the waste of the forms of life that previosly used the elements existing in the environment.  When there was little animal life on earth there was far more CO2 in the air....plants thrived and grew at much faster rates of speed than at present.  As they replaced the CO2 rich environment with one higher in O2 by their very existance...the 02 breathers increased in population.  Thus is the ballance of life.  Life is change...to think we could stop all change isn't rational. niether is thinking change will not occcure.

    As for killing people Well, No doubt every human who breaths has a right to do so. But I must say that in my eyes when people try to base thier arguments on extreme comments it is simply that they have chosen an opinion of extreemes and are trying to deflect from the truth which is almost always in th grey between the extreemes.  So in dealing with people who are only intersested in that type of discussion... I don't think you'll be seeing that factual scientific evidence Davsett...

    We would be changing our environment simply by our existance but it would be slower in time.  It is the release of CO2 from locked underground reserves that is too rapid when compaired with the slow tranition of O2 back to CO2. as our creator intended   I have no issues with driving my V8 tahoe daily for work.  So all I was asking was that we get off the partyline extreems and use our grey matter to act by discussing calmly the grey truths.

    And as for only having 50 years of evidence re: our atmosphere you really should look into how easily we can determine what the atmosphere held by studying the gasses locked in ice layers over the polar caps.  I know of no one who refutes this fairly simple science or dateing of that information.

    NebraskaWalleye NebraskaWalleye
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    07 Apr 2009 12:29 PM

    "where temperatures have risen in recent decades apparently because of global warming."

     

    even a scientist isnt willing to say it IS global warming.


    Its easier to Judge then be Judged, Its better to be Judged and Learn from it. Holdrege, Nebraska
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