This is the draft of the letter to the Board of Directors.  Please review it, add your comments, suggestions, and any other information that needs to be, or should be added to it.  I will finalize the letter next week 17 October 2008 and mail it off.

Friday, October 10, 2008

 

Board of Directors

North American Membership Group
12301 Whitewater Dr.
Minnetonka, MN 55343

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I am writing on behalf of numerous members of the North American Fishing Club.  I have been a member of NAFC since August 2008, and was introduced to the club by the advertisement of the club as a collective of members who share in a love for fishing.  The club, as I understood it, and as advertised, is supposed to put its members first, as the most important resource NAMG has.  Perhaps, you as the Board of Directors, are being misled as well.

 

First and foremost, I enjoy meeting other like minded fishermen.  I also enjoy seeing and reading about the information passed amongst the members, in so much as, the advice offered, the mutual support, and the various member meets that bring anglers together.  I also enjoy the “networking” that occurs between the members, in regards to bartering and selling unused, unwanted, or excess fishing gear.  I must admit, I have benefitted a great deal from the generosity of equipment and books sold to me by the members of the club and prices that would put Walmart to shame.  In this aspect of the club, I, as well as others, have no complaints.  This is member to member service and unfortunately, this is where the club only shines.

 

I am not complaining for the sake of complaining, nor am I over emphasizing, or over embellishing the following concerns or complaints of the members.  These complaints and concerns are well documented on the website, in the forums, that apparently no one from the club hierarchy either reads, responds to, cares about, or otherwise addresses.  This is truly a shame for a company that supposedly cares about the members.  A number of questions have been submitted through the “Ask the Editors” portion of the website, and I have personally sent 3 or 4 questions and suggestions through this forum, to which there is, and has been NO REPLY.  When I contacted member services, I was told that the editors are supposed to reply to inquiries within 2 – 3 days.  That has never happened, and when the customer service representative was confronted with this, I was then told the Information Technology folks were prioritizing the issues concerning member log in issues first.  My question sirs, are the Information Technology folks the editors of the club?  Are they the ones that speak for the running of the club, or am I mistaken in the understanding that this forum is designed for club hierarchy to have direct access to the members of the club to address concerns and suggestions?  I suggested when I spoke with the member services folks that perhaps if the club identified a couple of reliable members that could MODERATE various portions of the website, meaning act as a conduit between the members and the various departments of the club, they could alleviate the “work load” of the IT folks and get the answers back to the members so as to quell feelings of not being cared about.  It is a possible solution to bridging the communication gap that IS very prevalent.  What is even more discouraging is when I asked to speak to the club president or a club officer about some of the concerns and the member services representative did not know who the club president is.  She is not alone, none of the members I have spoken with (and there have been quite a few) know who it is either. 

 

It is also concerning and actually very frustrating to me and others that when we contact the club with questions or concerns, we are given the run around.  Told, in fact, that the club doesn’t deal with such issues as “starting a state chapter”, “how to organize member meets”, “hold a national club conference”, or being sent forms that are necessary to complete product testing or receive the refund on fishing licenses for life members.  No, instead we are referred back to the website, which, in looking at the NAMG website that claims to have award winning member club websites, doesn’t provide members ANY insight into these areas of questions or concerns.  In fact sirs, the member store, which is supposed to be a member store contains only a single item for the week or in some cases weeks.  Instead of being able to purchase member items, club members have to resort to buying “club” merchandise from third party websites like E-Bay, Sportsman Guide, Amazon, and others, where membership in the club isn’t even a requirement to purchase the gear, like decent fishing jackets, patches, emblems, books, videos, mugs, or otherwise.  This is not what I, or for that matter, anyone, would consider an award winning website.  I was even told by the member services representative, she personally did not even look at the website, so why would a member be referred to a resource that is;  1) substandard in the first place, 2) doesn’t contain the information that is requested, since that is the whole reason why the member is calling member services, 3) takes so long to even load for the members who still are on dial up connections that they time out before the page loads, 4) doesn’t have a search function that works with any degree of accuracy, and 5) doesn’t even have a section to see who the club officers are, so that you could have a line to someone in charge to register a complaint with.

 

I received in the mail yesterday my first book from the club.  Not that I mind receiving the books, but it strikes me as insane that I should be solicited to buy a book, when I have yet to receive my membership welcome kit, gifts, and card.  This suggests to me, as well as others in the club, who have been lured by the “elite” fallacy of life membership, that the club doesn’t care about the member, but is more interested in their money.  This is a corrupt view for an organization that “prides itself on its members”.  Preys on its members is more appropriate language in this case.  As I suggested to member services, as other members have as well, why not just list the books and videos in the “non-existent” member store and allow the members to buy what they want instead of sending out unsolicited materials.  It is a waste of money for one, and two, for some members who live in rural areas and have to travel to put the materials back in the mail to send back to the club, a serious inconvenience.  Why inconvenience the member?  I bought the entire 50 book set from a club member, but there is an implied “threat” of sorts in the card that is being sent back along with the book.  Specifically, when I check the “No” block, it states “I understand this is my ONLY chance to participate in the Library that includes the Line ‘n’ Lure Product Sample Program.”  Why threaten a member with “loosing” a benefit if they aren’t interested in that specific product.  I know this is something that has been suggested as a “pressured sales tactics” which have been determined by courts in some states as “extortive business practices”.  This is not what I would consider as “pride in the membership”, nor as your website suggests, “…Regardless of how our members choose to consume media, NAMG is committed to providing them with useful, instructional, and entertaining content and products, now and in the years to come.”

This brings us to entertaining products, which includes the product testing program, that again there are caveats to that are not disclosed anywhere on the website or in any of the membership information.  I raised the question concerning the testing program, with member services, since I never received a reply from the “Ask the Editors” forum, and I asked, “There has been a real problem with members not receiving testing products, and the feeling is, once you become a life member, you don't get any products to test.  The feeling is, the product testing "promise" is a scam to solicit members and get dues.  What's the deal?”  The answer I was given was, “Product testing is a program where the members are given an opportunity to assist product manufacturers with field testing various products to get feed back on those products.  Members must fill out a product test profile to be considered for the program.  Once the member gets a product to test, and they complete the testing feedback form, they must fill out a new product test profile.  However, if a member receives a product to test, and they do not submit their test report, they are removed from the product test program permanently, regardless if they submit another profile or not.”  I understand when the club sends a product for testing, they expect it to be tested.  And I also understand that there are some people that will try to get something for nothing, and the club needs to weed these people out, however, if the member doesn’t know about the repercussions for not filling out the form, and a form is requested from member services and was either never sent or received, how fair is that to the member?

The morale of the members of NAFC is seriously low.  When I visit the website, or speak with the other members, I don’t sense any real pleasure in belonging to the club.  Quite honestly, I received a “Congratulations, you have been nominated for an exclusive life membership” letter in the mail two days ago.  When I saw that, I thought this is nice, but how in God’s name would I justify buying a life membership, when I am being solicited to buy books, “threatened”, shoved aside (as I see it – since I have yet to receive even my “Basic” membership kit), and told that I am being offered an “EXCLUSIVE” deal.  By exclusive, does the club mean “milked” for more money, so I can be forgot about once I become a life member?  I don’t think so. 

I admit sirs, this letter seems very negative.  But there is something that can be done to improve the situation.  I am advocating on behalf of all the members.  I have used my personal examples, so this letter could not be construed as “hearsay”.   I would encourage the Board of Directors to take some time and read the forums of the NAFC website and see for yourselves the level of discontentment with the members.  I would also say in closing that if advocating for the betterment of the North American Fishing Club and its members costs me my membership, then so be it.  I am requesting a response to this letter.  If a response is not forthcoming, I will forward this letter on to other agencies, bureaus, and businesses as appropriate.  It is my fondest desire to see the NAFC become the club the NAMG claims it to be, and to see the improvement in the morale of the members they desire and deserve.

 

Sincerely,

 

William E. Smith

 

 

 

 

 

Any day on the water or in the woods is solitude itself.

Hi Theolan, Wow. Quite a piece that. I must say that if that doesn't warrant a response, N.A.F.C. 's officers are corpses. Thoughtfully and accurately written my friend.      Happy fishing.

~N.A.F.C.~B.A.S.S.~BoatU.S.~N.R.A.~A.M.A.~

i haven't had nearly the problems you have, but i would agree, whole heartedly, with the spirit of the letter. my biggest beef would be the member "store". i truely hope your letter gets something done.

I am looking for some additional suggestions and feedback on this letter.  The letter is being sent on behalf of the members, and is not solely my personal gripes.  If you agree or disagree, simply say so.  If you think I am off base, feel free to let me know.  I am advocating to the hierarchy of the club so we can make this club better, and at least I am willing to bear the brunt of the criticism on behalf of the members.  I would like to have all the greviences addressed in the letter, as well as what the members do like about the club.  I want to offer praise as well as point out what is wrong and what can be done to fix it. 

I would like to hear from each of you that have read this thread, and trust me, my shoulders are broad, and I won't be upset if anyone disagrees.  I just want some HONEST input.  Thanks all!

Any day on the water or in the woods is solitude itself.

Well Theolan I don't have a lot of gripes about the club. As we've discussed earlier, I'd like to see the member store actually function as one, making the fishing library books and DVD's available there rather than sent blindly to the membership. On the topic of the books and DVD's, I think they are very well done and I enjoy them. I also get fishing DVD's from In-fisherman and books fron B.A.S.S., and N.A.F.C.'s products are usually just as informative as the competition's. Also, in just under 2 years membership I have received 3 products to test, and though they were small dollar items I still enjoyed receiving and testing them, so I have'nt experienced the problems some other members have on that topic. So there are a couple of possitives you can pass on to corporate for me . Thanks for all you do Theolan.     Happy fishing.

~N.A.F.C.~B.A.S.S.~BoatU.S.~N.R.A.~A.M.A.~

Theolan, I read your letter then went back to the home page and looked up a couple other things and will now add my 2cents.

I am not sure the club has a "President" per se, for if it did we would have had some input towards electing this person.  Maybe that is one of the problems.

I think for the NAFC to be able to provide a basic "Blueprint" for chapter formation would be good for the club (more members) and for the local members.    The Ohio group sure seems to be run by a nice batch of people.

I agree, the response to "Ask The  Editors" should not be "Thundering Silence", but it is most of the time.  Most of the questions could be answered in a few lines and perhaps a reference or two.

The sending out of books and so forth with the return is "book club" strategy", works the same as all of the items sent by charitable organizations, they hope that once you have it, you will decide to keep it.

The "field test" paperwork should strongly remind members of the absololute necessity of returning the reports.  I lost one and so have never responded on one product sent to me, because of previous information provided in another thread, i requested another form so I might complete the "Mission".  Now if they come through as promised.

I don't think I provided much in the way of new ideas, but surely do support the efforts.

William( Theolan) I think what you have down is really good. The following info. might be useful. For the NAFC the principal person is  Ms. Nancy Evensen, President  phone (952)352-7040, Additional personnel (Company Management) are as follows Ms. Kate Pope, Ms Sara Glover (Member Services Manager), Mr. Tony DeFrance. The company is not a BBB accredited business. I also have a list of additional phone numbers and addresses if you want them, Just let me know. Hope this helps  Lou

 

 

 

Retired-psg /Infantry,Purple Heart and a Few others, VietNam Vet, Ex Deputy Sheriff SCCSD, and all around good Guy! Living in Wisconsin

Would you suggest sending this letter to these folks first?  Or send it on to the Board of Directors?
Any day on the water or in the woods is solitude itself.

Theo, one of the underlying reasons for joining this club in the first place is to have the ability to communicate with folks that have similar desires and ambitions where fishing is concerned.  I believe you mentioned this in your letter.  Since the arrival of the new web site this "ability" has been lost for many, many members.  It never ocurred to me that so many members are on dial-up.  The way this site loads itself, which you also spoke to in your letter, is probably the big hitter for member "unrest"...Losing the communication factor.  Don't get me wrong, the member store and product testing are also big issues, but they only hold value for those that can access them!  I think there is a very big issue with the "tech group or web master", or lack there of.

The Ohio chapter is a great organization.  They hold election of officers, conduct quarterly meetings (minimum), and communicate to all members through a web site built by one of the members!  http://www.nafcohiochapter.com/index.php  The organizers of this chapter have tried and have offered to assist any state that wishes to organize.  There has been little response.  I am not sure there is the "desire" for this everywhere, which is ok.  But at the very begining I was told this was a desire of the "club", to have local chapters.

With all this being said, if all club members can not communicate with each other then the value of everything else is minimal.  I have been told by many folks that build web sites as a hobby, that this is one of the very worst and difficult type (of site software) to use.  So I say, lets take a very close look at priorities that address membership foundational  issues here, not so much personal desires.  And that is my two cents!

 

 

 

LM since 2005 Bushwacker Deputy Sherif

Theolan I would send it to all of them at the same time in the hope that it will strike a cord with at least one of them.   Lou

                                        

 

Retired-psg /Infantry,Purple Heart and a Few others, VietNam Vet, Ex Deputy Sheriff SCCSD, and all around good Guy! Living in Wisconsin

I whole heartedly agree with you T.  The website is seriously lacking, and communication is most certainly lacking with the club to the members.  Like I mentioned in the letter, member to member activity is what shines about the club.  It should not be the only thing.  And MM is right in identifying the quality of the material the club does produce.  I agree with him in that regard.  Having bought the 50 book set, I have managed to finish 4 of the books and I am working on two more presently.  I would not know about the magazine, as I have yet to receive it, now 2 months since I became a member, nor as of yet, have I received the membership welcome kit (bobbers, knives, resource directory, ect.)  Having said that, and I can understand these things take time, but, when I receive solicitations for not only books but to upgrade to a life membership (btw THANKS to the members that NOMINATED ME for such an honor, as the letter states), it shows what really drives this club - MONEY first, Members - last.  That is why I am airing all the grievances with the club.  They (the club) solicit businesses toting the membership and opening doors for those businesses to find new customers.  It reminds me of a time when I raised Angel Fish to sell to local pet shops.  I would feed and take care of my feeder fish until the time came to feed the big fish.  At that point, I didn't really care about the feeder fish.  In this club, the membership to me seems to be feeder fish for the organization to feed to the Larger Angel Fish (corporate businesses).  If any of you disagree, just look at the member store.  It is NOT a store by any means, it is a list of businesses who want your money essentially.  I would also direct you to the NAMG website, that boasts to other businesses, look at all of these potential customers, the feeders for your products. 

I know this is a capitalistic society.  I know business drives business.  No complaint with that, that is what this country is...Let's make money.  But when as you said T, they redesigned the website, which essentially closed communication, or hampered it to the point where members feel excluded, (i.e. unable to log in, slow loading pages that make visiting the club site more of a hassle than a benefit, unsolicited mailings with implied threats of denying membership benefits) the club hierarchy needs to know and hear the members are people who have paid dues, who desire and deserve what is promised to them, and by God, deserve to receive benefits of the club that their dues are supposed to have paid for.  They don't even attempt to reply to the members in the forums.  This is in my book, unacceptable.  And this is not directed at you T, or anyone in particular, just me venting because of the frustration I see in the members.  Maybe I care too much, but a club that is supposed to be inclusive of people who love fishing, they seem awfully eager to take their money, and not deliver squat in return, or what they do offer is so substandard, that it would be best to start fresh from the ground up.

This is why it is important for all the members who read the post and the letter to reply.  The club doesn't hesitate to use the members to generate business in the way of getting money for advertising and such, so the members should feel, as a matter of right, to have products and benefits that are commensurate with what was "promised".  I want the club to be the club I have heard and read about from the older members.  I want the members to be happy.  But most of all, I guess I want all of us, as the members of this club to feel appreciated.  Without the members, the NAFC or any club for that matter, is nothing more than a couple of guys sitting around BSing about something.  The membership is what gives a club legitimacy, not a magazine, or a fancy patch, or a logo.  It is about time, in my humble opinion, that the club realizes this simple fact and does something to improve its relations with the members.  We are not feeder fish.  We are the Guys and Gals who do the Fishing...

Any day on the water or in the woods is solitude itself.

I hear what you say and I find myself in agreement with most if not all you have stated...Good luck with your efforts.  I truly hope the club management or directors feel the same way!

 

 

 

LM since 2005 Bushwacker Deputy Sherif

Lou,

Just wanted to let everyone know that Ms. Evensen resigned in May as CEO.. so calling her probably wont get much done.

There is a new CEO in her place as well as a few new faces in other key postions. so we'll see i f things improve..

Theolan

Before the old web site went down there was approximately 13,650  members registered here on the  NAFC website.. with that said if you think about it  Our voice / opinions here on the B&B only account for .03% of the total NAFC membership 465,000 if you add that number to the Ten other Magizines / Clubs offered under the parent company your talking about a  combined membership well over 5,016,000 members we can only hope that our concerns are heard.

Hopefully the new management will turn things around and make this site and the other sites more user friendly..

"Friends are GOD's way of showing us that we don't have to fish alone"
"Take a child fishing"

(Wi) Life Member

Jerry K.

What would you suggest Rod?  Do you agree or disagree with the letter/thread?
Any day on the water or in the woods is solitude itself.

i wonder if they have these problems across the board in their other clubs(hunting club, gardening club, handyman club, cooking club etc.)  i called the club a couple weeks ago letting them know that i never recieved a test product feedback form and was told one would be sent and i'm still waiting, that was the second call i made requesting a form and nada. i am happy that i recieve products a couple times a yr. and don't want to be taken off the list the recieve more, infact in this months mag. my review of the ridgeback spear point knife was printed in the mag. so i'm always eager to submit a review. if anyone has a test product review form maybe one could be e-mailed to me? its pretty bad when ya have to request forms from members instead of getting action from the staff.
life member since march 2002 on the water in PA....go big or go home

Lenny, I know several NAHC members, some are NAFC members also, and they made the web site change before we did.  It is still a mess.  It drove many members from the site as it has here.  And that's not even knowing if the product testing program works...

 

 

 

LM since 2005 Bushwacker Deputy Sherif

i finally got a response and a survey form when i e-mailed the editors, e-mailing was alot more effective than those phone calls
life member since march 2002 on the water in PA....go big or go home

I have emailed them 75 times now regarding the fact that I can not participate in any member contests on the site etc.. because it says I am a registered guest since 1996 instead of a Life Member. They have not fixed it or responded to the last 10 emails. I am sick of this and i am giving up coming here anymore. I am considering legal action to receive a refund due to their lack of compliance. If I can not particpate online then being a life member of nothing is ridiculous!!

I am in agreement with what you say. As far as the field testing program, I received an item to test,b ut that was it . no reply form, an nowhere on the site to request one.  The feeling I get is, we got your money, you receive the magazine, now shut up|||||||

Well, I can now log on as a life member. I found out by accident, as they never contacted me when they fixed it this week as they said they would.
"Life Member" since 1996 "Able to log on to site since Nov 08"