Grand Lake St. Marys Ohio
Last Post 23 Oct 2010 07:05 AM by FFFisch. 61 Replies.
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rhall9User is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:1 rhall9
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20 Jul 2010 10:37 PM

    This is Ohios biggest lake and now the lake is so dirty that you cant swim , boat ,or eat the fish  in this lake. It will take years to clean this lake from all the years of  farmers using this lake as a tolet for their livestock.

    FFFischUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:919 FFFisch
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    21 Jul 2010 06:04 AM
    I live 10 miles from Grand lake and it is a crying shame. This did not happen over night. There is more to the pollution than just the farmers. I hope they can get it cleaned up yet in my lifetime. I have spent thousands of hours on that lake and now it is gone.
    larrysfishingserviceUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:120 larrysfishingservice
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    23 Jul 2010 06:32 AM
    thats a lowdown dirty shame!
    larrysfishingservice@gmail.com www.larrysfishingservice.com&http://www.facebook.com/pages/larrysfishingservicecom/122428734496148
    bstaleyUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:2 bstaley
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    24 Jul 2010 07:57 AM
    i bought a home in jan. of this year about a block or two away from the lake. i was thinking about going fishing  every weekend this summer. but now since this alge and toxins have showed up, i can't even go out my front door without getting hit with the foul odor of the lake. so now i have to find another fishing spot for my family that is not to far away. this totally sucks
    FFFischUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:919 FFFisch
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    25 Jul 2010 11:48 AM
    bstaley, I know what you mean. It really does suck. I use to live in Villa Nova on the north side of the lake for 12 years. Moved to New Bremen after a divorce. The lake was just a couple blocks away. I am glad I don't live that close any longer. This spring the lake looked the best it has in years and I took my boat out fishing on it for the 1st time in 4 or 5 years. Now this, what a crying shame!!! You don't live to far from Lake Loramie. It has alot of places that you can fish from shore with the family.
    lowellhturnerUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:267 lowellhturner
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    26 Jul 2010 11:10 PM
    Gentlemen, the Battle of Grand Lake St. Marys isn`t over, and forgive my perhaps seemingly overly optimistic outlook but IT HASN`T EVEN BEGUN YET,  the easiet way to suffer defeat is to GIVE UP. This stage of this endeavor requires we find a (or alot of) LOCAL Duke of Marlbough type(s). Some one with a personal stake in WINNING this WW 2 scale battle, absolutely honest, and politely put a cunning , resouceful and utterly relentless force able to sell a snake a pair of shoes AND convince him he NEEDS and really WANTS them. Dredging IS the only realistic LONG TERM option. And yes, it is a huge lake; it didn`t get this way over night, and so it won`t get back to it`s former glory quickly either. The US Army Corps of Engineers are the ONLY resouce with the equipment AND fire and horse power to stand a chance, probably by dividing the lake into sections temporarily then restoring it`s former depth or slightly deeper. To the timid and "quick fixer uppers" that hope short term cheap bandades will work, well, good luck with that. And REALLY hope it works. IF it doesn`t 2 choices will remain;  A tuck tail and sell while the property is still worth something or just put up with the stench  B roll up your sleeves and get into this fight. IT`S YOUR LAKE AT STAKE!! Find those LOCAL Duke types and turn them lose on this!
    FFFischUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:919 FFFisch
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    27 Jul 2010 05:26 AM

    There are alot of things happening here to get the ball rolling. Letter writing to the govennor. Petitions are going around. News media airing the mess. there are little groups forming. But you are right that this will not be cleaned up over night. I am not ancient but I am not a young man anymore either. I just don't know if I would trust eating anymore fish from there in my lifetime . Now that is a shame for me.

    lowellhturnerUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:267 lowellhturner
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    27 Jul 2010 02:53 PM
    Ffish, will not be unrealistic but it CAN be done. Won`t try to say will be easy, cheap or drama free, however harder fights than this have been won. Just depends on several factors, most CRITICALLY one (or better yet several) LOCAL trustworthy individual(s) need to come to the front of this endeavor and throw their hat(s) into this fight. He (she, they) must have community support, be VERY persuasive, and be politely UTTERLY RELENTLESS in pursuit of the goal of restoring the lake. And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, if ANYONE has a BETTER idea of a VIABLE LONG TERM solution other than dredging out the phosphat ladden muck and sediments of 150yrs please we need to hear it NOW, Anyone? Forgive me but dredging it out and restoring 5-8 fow is the ONLY REALISTIC guarenteed way of LONG TERM fixing the lake that am currently aware of. Can ANYONE else think of any other viable solution?
    lowellhturnerUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:267 lowellhturner
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    29 Jul 2010 02:21 PM
    Pardon if looking too far back in history for a comparable type of leader, perhaps would be more usefull to suggest an Eisenhower, leading upto and planning D Day, the invasion of Nazi held Europe. Believe that endeavor was called OVERLORD, after Ike`s nominal title. Realize will be multiroles to fulfill in the Battle of GLSM, but the idea is the same, a LOCAL leader who is granted primary responsibility for success of undertaking, politically correct and able to build Alliances while still maintaining freedom of action to do WHATEVER needs to be done to see this completed. FIND THAT PERSON!!!
    lowellhturnerUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:267 lowellhturner
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    01 Aug 2010 02:43 PM
    Saw where a recommendation to restore wetlands to allow filtering/ settling effect on waste water/ fertilizers and/ or herbicides will be a MAJOR step in shaping the battle to restore GLSM. Will be VERY helpful by simply allowing alot of chemicals to be dealt with naturally before they can settle and be stored in the muck deeply layered for now on the lake bottom. Ultimately that phosphat rich muck still will need removal to bring the lake`s PH back to a tolerable level when it`s hot out and there is a great volume of boat traffic churning the lake even unintentionally. Mean to or not, with a modern high thrust prop alot of bigger more powerful  watercraft have angles os attack that can`t help but blow the sediments 6` underwater into phosphat rich silt soup for thousands of feet with each wide open run. The lake is JUST TOO SHALLOW TO AVOID THIS, atleast at this time. Dredging the muck down even 6` will give 10-12fow over most of the lake. Conversely, establish ENFORCED no wake zones/ areas and RUTHLESSLY ticket offenders in areas left undredged. And am not suggesting dredging the ENTIRE lake, realistically doing even 1/3rd will SIGNIFICANTLY improve the lake`s overall health. Ideally, do atleast HALF of it. And while your`e at it, place fishing cover selectively. That and restoring the former weedbeds and cattails will fix ALOT is currently the matter with GLSM. Whom will be the OVERLORD? FIND HIM (THEM)!!!
    rkremerUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:45 rkremer
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    02 Aug 2010 07:58 AM
    WOW this is just a horrible story. I grew up in coldwater and fished the lake many many times over my 18 years there. My folks who still live there told me this was going on, but I still can't believe it!! GLSM used to be an awesome crappie and perch lake and we had many tasty meals out of there. Now you could get who knows what disease....and what about all the streams like Colwater creek, beaver creek, Montezuma creek, etc?
    FFFischUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:919 FFFisch
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    03 Aug 2010 06:17 AM
    Yea you would not reconize the lake. Some parts are the lake don't look too bad but when you get to the bad spots it looks like a sludge lagoon. The governor has been here and letters sent to congressman Jordon, who has responded back. Let us see what they will do about it.
    lowellhturnerUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:267 lowellhturner
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    03 Aug 2010 08:46 PM
    Forgive my optimism, but if put "politically correctly" they WILL do what ever is asked of them. IF NOT..... and don`t get me wrong, am sure it will take some letter writing, some gentle political shoulder dislocation, and community outrage (in a nice sort of way), but give them this; once it is plain that the persons who ELECTED them to the office they currently hold are flat bent out of shape about the situation and that their future political carreer(s) are threatened with being voted OUT of office by someone more able to LONG TERM "fix" the problem, well, would bet the Battle of GLSM will be half won at that point. Now for the BAD news: without the local IKE(S) to keep it going towards the best outcome possible, it could lose support and steam. This is where those LOCAL IKE types will become priceless- and when said they better be able to sell a snake a pair of shoes and convince the snake he WANTS and NEEDS them wasn`t kidding. With ANY improvement in the lake there will be many who will feel prematurely that every thing is now OK, and no they don`t want to spend any more of their tax dollars to continue on  to completion. Having the CORPS of ENGINEERS involved will forestall any "short cuts" to decisive LONG TERM fixing the lake. Hope the IKE types are already coming to the fore front, without them this won`t actually get the "permanent" fix everyone wants at least for now. Get on board, there is certainly strenght in shere numbers. Remember, quantity has a quality all of it`s own. Don`t believe that? Just ask a politican on Election Day!!!
    FFFischUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:919 FFFisch
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    04 Aug 2010 06:21 AM
    The governor met with the local Ikes and especially the business owners that a taking a beating the last couple years ripped on him pretty good. I understand his butt was much smaller when he left.
    lowellhturnerUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:267 lowellhturner
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    04 Aug 2010 10:51 PM
    Ffish, understand that those who have the most to lose (and/ or gain) SHOULD be the ones to speak up, however, they represent a handful of those affected by the problem, without overlooking their interests. Same as they also unintentionally helped to create that same problem, just as much as the farming practices of yester years certainly did too. Basically, between uncontrolled farm runoff and septic systems draining directly into the lake along with lawn fertilizers and people destroying the weedbeds with Round up so they had that mini beach look shoreside of their house... add a whole lot of over developement and super farming almost down to the edge of the lake and you see where we are. More than enough blame to go around. Unfortunately, there are the few who, upon being told their rearends were on fire would rather slowly burn to death than simply say "OUCH!! OUCH!!" and proceed to deal with it. That is where having the IKES will come in- they won`t be out to hurt anyone`s feelings- they will be out to LONG TERM FIX the lake REGARDLESS of anyone`s feelings. This thing will take every resident there is and more support than the locals can muster, hence dragging in the Corps of Engineers, with them in the fight doubt there will be a "quick fix", BUT when they FIX something, it TENDS TO STAY FIXED! Even if they dredge half the lake and reestablish a minimun barrier of wetlands and settling ponds the hard part will be getting the locals to accept they too will have to CHANGE how they treat the lake, set realistic PROTECTIVE laws and regulations to ENFORCE everyone`s compliance, for the good of ALL; it will do NO good to dredge and do the rest if the lake simply slowly returns to it`s present state. Whom shall we blame THEN??  We have met the enemy and he is US!! US must change our ways of doing things IF we REALLY want to WIN this battle AND KEEP IT THAT WAY!!!
    DFergusonUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:35 DFerguson
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    19 Aug 2010 12:21 PM
    http://www.epa.ohio.gov/pic/glsm_algae.aspx

    http://www.epa.ohio.gov/portals/47/...onplan.pdf

    The first link above will take you to the Ohio EPA website set up for the issues at G.L.S.M. There you can find test results from samples taken from the lake. The second link is the action plan as it stood at the end of July.
    One thing the horrible conditions of this summer has produced is to bring this situation to the front page of the news. I also have waterfront property on the Big Chickasaw and live there year round. At first the reports from the media infuriated me due to the inaccurate statements made. But it did get the attention of higher government and it APPEARS there is at least some action planned.
    Lowellhturner is right, the cause needs a local champion as well, and some oversite as to how all of this new money coming to bear on the issue is dispersed.
    I also agree the Corps Of Engineers is the best group for the job, the lake was under their care in the beginning. Through ciircumstance and timing, the lake has gone downhill ever since it was turned over to the state. This lake is too valuable to the entire community to let it die. There are some very well meaning grassroots organizations in the community that take donations and use the funds to help improve the lake. These people have truly made significant strides into finding a solution to the problem and they and their benefactors deserve praise for their efforts. Millions of dollars annually come into the area directly from recreational use of the lake. It does not seem unreasonable to expect the state to reinvest some of the tax dollars it has been reaping over the years to correct a situation it has allowed to develope while under the states stewardship. The people of the community and those that come to the area for recreational activities have been paying the state for the proper care and feeding of this resource all along and have been getting short-changed by the lack of adequate regulations and the failure to enforce regulations already in place. Let's not let the people who have mis-managed the resource benefit from the work, (and money) of others.

    Okay, I will get down off my soap box now.
    Everybody have a great day.
    Dferguson Just another dinosaur
    FFFischUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:919 FFFisch
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    20 Aug 2010 07:18 AM
    Well said!!!  You are right . this whole situation did not happen over night. 31 years ago I worked at the state park for a few years and I know even then how things were managed that eventtually hurt the park and lake. It is time to put forth the time, effort and money to fix this problem the right way.
    lowellhturnerUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:267 lowellhturner
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    21 Aug 2010 01:48 PM
    D Fergeson, FFFish forgive the drama, but loved to fish GLSM in the late 80`s and 90`s haven`t been back but once since. Remember how the lake WAS and honestly breaks my heart to see how "cheaper, faster, more, more, and MORE profit"  for a few unaware individuals whom were kindly put totally clueless of the consequenses of their "improvement" plans for developements, AND some farming practices or "cost saving" ideas- " my septic system and leechfield is practically brand new (even if the runoff DOES go straight into the lake I live next to) WHY should I PAY to help install a public sewer system?" A LOCAL leader MUST arise to assume the OVERLORD post. Without him (them) this will take MUCH LONGER and will be MUCH LESS effective! Hold a LOCAL election if necessary BUT get THAT (THOSE) trustworthy and vigorous person(s) into a position similar to that one Eisenhower was assigned in late 1942. And though some might "envy" them, honestly would more respect and have empathy for what he (they) are about to embark upon.  To ACTUALLY BE EFFECTIVE he (they) MUST be elected to have SOME (not ALL) power to influence the outcome of the looming Battle of Grand Lake Saint Marys. Ike on  D-Day only gave 3 TACTICAL orders; #1 he ORDERED the US Navy to dispatch 6 brand new destroyers to do VERY close (point blank range) gunfire support for the first 4 waves coming ashore, knowing they and many crewmen would probably be lost- 2  of the ships were. BUT they silenced defending gun batteries that otherwise would have gutted the OMAHA landings, # 2 upon hearing a single platoon of  12 TIGER tanks were being rushed forward towards OMAHA but were stopping to begin refueling in a small village 18 miles away he sent a WING of B-17s ( 124 strategic bombers) to that village and UTTERLY OBLITERATED IT. 124 X 8 X 1,000 lb bombs = bye bye TIGER tanks, eliminating the ONLY immediate strategic threat on D-Day. #3 ordered 3X the numbers of anti sub ships and aircraft deemed necessary to prevent excessive U Boat sucesses AND also had EVERY U boat within 100 miles REPEATEDLY attacked by every otherwise available aircraft and ship- more than a dozen U boats were sunk on June 6th alone. The  15 survivors didn`t DARE come within 20 nautical miles of the beachheads and reported over 300+ attacks in just 24 hrs. The other services AND some ALLIES balked, but IKE doggedly REFUSED to par his requirements down, and FORTUNATELY his bosses agreed- there would be NO  possible overlooked or under estimated threat left when the first soldier**** those horrible beaches and began the Liberation of Europe and the overdue destruction of Nazi Germany.  Our Ike won`t call in naval gunfire or a wing of strategic bombers or sink any U boats BUT MARK MY WORDS there WILL be the "cheaper, easier, faster,  half a$$" we`re going overboard and let`s only do LESS than the absolute MINIMUM to fix `er up  platform `cause it ain`t my problem (even though I live right on the lake) " crowd.  When said this undertaking IS on the scale of a WW 2 battle WASN`T just grandstanding! To WHOM EVER (God help them!) assumes the mantle of the OVERLORD would suggest 1 thing... ADOPT the ancient Roman Engineer`s formula- if  "X" will work, DEMAND 3X!! DON`T BOW to popular sentiment, YOUR JOB IS NOT to be popular, IT IS TO LONG TERM FIX THE LAKE!!! The motto of the Roman Engineers was "I build beyond my own life..." because if their project failed, they were publically CRUCIFIED, regardless of their status or connections. If you fail to LONG TERM FIX the lake  that might seem not so bad! And to the rest of us, GET INVOLVED! Letter writing, call your local, state and federal representatives and senators. DEMAND A LONG TERM FIX!! And make it VERY obviously CLEAR to ALL the afore mentioned to  IMMEDIATELLY put any Bandades back in to the box they came out of OR ELSE WE WILL VOTE YOU OUT OF OFFICE  (in a nice sort of way). FIND THE OVERLORD(S)!! Dredge, baby, DREDGE!! And those couple of other things that need done, too.
    DFergusonUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:35 DFerguson
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    24 Aug 2010 09:16 AM
    ????? WTH
    Dferguson Just another dinosaur
    lowellhturnerUser is Offline Advanced Poster Advanced Poster Send Private Message Posts:267 lowellhturner
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    24 Aug 2010 02:16 PM
    Forgive my long winded , well, long windedness! Rumor has it 2 Lake Erie dredges are currently sitting idle somewhere. We aren`t talking the local pond dredges, we are talking some MAJOR muck (re)moving capability. Obviously, they would need to de dismantled, moved and reassembled which will take some time. HOWEVER, comparatively speaking would be the difference between digging a basement with a hand shovel versus using a backhoe at worse or a power shovel at best. And realistically even with an Erie dredge it will still take several yrs to complete the MINIMUM amount of dredging necessary to seriously begin to tip the scales, so to say. And pray they DO NOT do less than the bare minimum required to help the lake; otherwise, we haven`t LONG TERM seen the last of the blooms. Am personally a strong supporter of the 3X plan myself,  "fix it beyond our own lives" is ACTUALLY more economical and COST EFFECTIVE in the LONG TERM. After all, it didn`t get this way overnight and realistically the "solution" should last longer than overnight as well. And who wants a repeat of things as they are now in a decade or 2? NO THANK YOU!
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