Always Check Your Line/Knot Strength
Last Post 26 Sep 2010 05:51 PM by fisherfanatic. 5 Replies.
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slipperybobUser is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:1240 slipperybob
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24 Sep 2010 03:02 AM

    I generally check old line on the reel spool before going fishing and check line on the spool just sitting at home before spooling up.  In fact I look for line damage or just that line deformity of just sitting under pressure at the place on the rod tip guide.  I strip line when I deem it necessary.

    Anyway, I always have a line to fall back on that I find as reliable. It may not be the strongest, the most limp, the best casting distance, the least memory, nor the most abrasion resistant line, but it is the most consistent line from the beginning of the spool to the end of the spool.   That's why I like Silverthread Excalibur and make it my goto line.  I also use it as a basis to compare to any other lines I use.  Well actually I used to use Trilene XL and XT as my basis to compare lines, but I've converted ever since encountering Silverthread Excalibur.

    To test, I take a piece of line and tie my knots to the end of some swivel clips.  It's faster and easier to slide and remove knots off the clips rather than trying to snip it off just a swivel.  I use same knot on both ends tied to separate clips and pull test on Berkley 35 lb digital scale.  Gives me good idea of what to expect as well as my knot tying proficiency.

    I've gathered some line break data on an altered Trilene Knot that I tie. I basically wrap the line four times and pass the tag end back around loop twice instead of the once that the normal Trilene Knot call for. I've found that this gives me the most consistency in knot and giving me a greater than 80% probability of 100% knot strength. I didn't account for the few knot failure breaks, because they tested lower. However even then for this particular line the knot failure breaks have consistently tested higher than box labeled line strenth. I was looking for consistent high line break data that I'm able to achieve repetitively. The tested line always showed line strain throughout the line, telling me it's an official line break.  It will not be a good choice to attempt to pull a snagged line to break in real world application.  It will leave a weakened spot elsewhere on the line to be snapped when least expected.

    Trilene Knot (Altered)
    ----------------------
    Silverthread Excalibur .179 mm 4# line break 5# 12 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .245 mm 6# line break 9# 11 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .275 mm 8# line break 11# 4 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .303 mm 10# line break 13# 9 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .330 mm 12# line break 15# 8 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .355 mm 14# line break 18# 4 oz.

    ***********

    For another popular knot, the Palomar Knot I've always have trouble achieve 100% line strength. It's kind of wishy washy since on average I will get less than 30% of 100% line strength. In simplicity it's an overhand knot and a loop that yeilds to a high potential of line pinch. Something of which I cannot truly confirm, but its very consisten in line breaks on the knot or very close to knot. There are times I will just give up trying to obtain data on a 100% knot to acquire the line break strength. Still it tests above box labeled line strength.  Very few line will show any kind of line strain throughout the entire tested line.  Tells me the breaks have a very high probability of being a knot related break.  Also means that the line integrity will be protected for those real world application of fishing and snagging bottom.

    Palomar Knot
    ----------------------
    Silverthread Excalibur .179 mm 4# line break 5# 14 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .245 mm 6# knot break 8# 2 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .275 mm 8# knot break 10# 12 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .303 mm 10# knot break 12# 6 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .330 mm 12# line break 15# 6 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .355 mm 14# knot break 17# 5 oz.

    Individual results will vary as their knot tying proficiency will differ.  Still I'm content that the results of line strength is still there even after these lines have been shelved for years.  Each knot has a particular use for me.  It's just the matter of choosing the right knot for the right application.  As long as I'm getting over box labed line test, I'm content with the line.  On occassion if I'm not sure I trust my results, I will tie a simple overhand knot into middle of line and test the line strength.  It should give me about box lable line test.  If it's less than 80% of it, I replace with new line.  In real world application, sometimes I will get a lure doing the single overhand knot on my line, and I will just keep on fishing with it.

    Single Overhand Knot
    -----------------------
    Silverthread Excalibur .179 mm 4# knot break 4# 4 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .245 mm 6# knot break 6# 12 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .275 mm 8# knot break 8# 12 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .303 mm 10# knot break 9# 14 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .330 mm 12# knot break 13# 2 oz.
    Silverthread Excalibur .355 mm 14# knot break 14# 15 oz.

    AZAllenUser is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:2497 AZAllen
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    24 Sep 2010 10:06 AM
    Nice charts and good commentary, I was surprised to hear your comments on the Palomar knot as most consider it a 100% knot. I think one advantage of the Palomar is the simplicity of the knot. I have used the clinch most of my life and tried some others. I have tried the improve clinch and the San Diego, although I learned it as the clinch on "bight". I find the more complicated the knot, the more chances for my fumble fingers to mess up. I know, I should practice more.
    NAFC, NAHC, NRA, SASS, Viet Nam Vet. Bullhead City, AZ
    slipperybobUser is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:1240 slipperybob
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    24 Sep 2010 02:07 PM
    The one thing I will never truly understand about the Palomar knot is which techinically tied one is stronger. Will the loop around the hook shank yeild to a stronger knot strength or the loop on the knot vs the loop above the knot. Will a line twist on the knot yeild a better knot or will an even line lay knot perform better? Will the line from the main line pulled first to snug on the inside be stronger vs it being pulled snug on the outside of the knot? I've loosely tested these over the years and still really haven't gathered enough data to say that it will work better one way or another. All I know is that I need to pull the tag end snug tight gives me the better results. I've always find myself clipping off a huge long tag end of the Palomar Knot. Something of which is very wasteful when it comes to using a leader line joined to a braid line.

    Many types of lines have tensile strength much higher than box labeled strength. For example Trilene XT is much stronger than XL, but XT comes in larger line diameter per box listed strength.  I believed the Palomar Knot to be a 100% knot for many years too. Until I started doing some loosely collected data of knot vs knot and examining line deformity after break. I've concluded for myself it's only a comparison to box labeled strength for the 100%. I've generally find the Palomar Knot to cause line failure before very close to knot. I used to conclude it's because I pulled the line through the knot causing some weak spot in the line. However that's the same for many other types of knots as well. Yet there's differences in results to show that is not the most accurate conclusion. I've since had to learn how to tie lines so that there are no squiggly line deformity, not even the slightest. Mostly it's, becuase I don't like the looks of it and will retie the knot.

    I encourage everyone to try their knot tying proficiency on their line of choice. It's a real eye opener to find out which knot your fingers and tie better and stronger. Mostly it's a great way to figure out if your line truly needs replacing on the day of fishing or if you should be setting your drag lighter or go heavier. It's good to have confidence in the line that one is currently using, but better to have knowledge of the line's strength to better apply it to fishing conditions.
    kclanceUser is Offline New Poster New Poster Send Private Message Posts:42 kclance
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    25 Sep 2010 12:56 AM
    slipperybob I have read a few of your reviews and I have found them very informative. Thank you for the great posts and for giving us the knowledge you have on this stuff. Its always a pleasure for me to read posts like this that I learn something from. Happy fishing bud

    Kevin
    Life Member from West Virginia Fishing is my break from reality whether I catch anything or not, give me a pole and a mud hole and I am happy as a clam :)
    slipperybobUser is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:1240 slipperybob
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    25 Sep 2010 07:03 AM
    kclance, thanks. I try to be fair in all my assessment, but personal experience always trumphs it. A lot of stuff I learned came from the club and club members. I'm just merely applying it to myself in my way.
    fisherfanaticUser is Offline Veteran Poster Veteran Poster Send Private Message Posts:1504 fisherfanatic
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    26 Sep 2010 05:51 PM
    After every bass I catch, I check to see if the knot is still in good condition.
    "I may be physically at my computer right now, but my mind has gone fishing!" --Avid angler from MI and member since 2009--
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